From the rain-soaked dreams of a young girl in Manchester, New Hampshire, to swimming in some of the world's most formidable waters, open water swimmer, writer, motivational speaker, and beacon of inspiration, Lynn Cox has lived a tale of endurance.
Over the course of more than 35 years, Lynne accomplished swims setting world records, opening borders, contributed to medical research, supported environmental causes, and inspired people to pursue their dreams. At age 14 she swam 26 miles from Catalina Island to the California mainland. At ages 15 and 16, she broke the men’s and women’s world records for swimming the English Channel—a 33-mile crossing in 9 hours, 33 minutes, achieving her first record as the youngest and fastest in 1972. At age 18, she swam the 20-mile Cook Strait between North and South Islands of New Zealand. She was also the first to swim the Cape of Good Hope and the Strait of Magellan, the latter being the most treacherous 3-mile stretch of water in the world.
Lynne is best known for her swim across the Bering Strait on 7 August 1987. The swim opened the border between the US and Soviet Union. Both US President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev hailed her accomplishment at the signing of the INF Missile Treaty at the White House.
As a world-class athlete, Lynne has championed the sport of open-water swimming, advocated for Title IX, and managed the U.S. women’s water polo and led efforts to establish women’s water polo as an Olympic sport.
Lynne's books include Swimming to Antarctica, Grayson, Open Swimming Manual, Elizabeth, Queen of the Seas, Swimming in the Sink, and Tales of Al The Water Rescue Dog.
Lynne Cox
Swimming to Antarctica: Tales of a Long-Distance Swimmer, Lynne Cox
Yoshi, Sea Turtle Genius, Lynne Cox
Tales of Al:The Water Rescue Dog, Lynne Cox
Swimming in the Sink: A Memoir, Lynne Cox
South of the Sun: Roald Amundsen, His Polar Explorations, and the Quest for Discovery, Lynne Cox
From the rain-soaked dreams of a young girl in Manchester, New Hampshire, to swimming in some of the world's most formidable waters, open water swimmer, writer, motivational speaker, and beacon of inspiration, Lynn Cox has lived a tale of endurance.
Over the course of more than 35 years, Lynne accomplished swims setting world records, opening borders, contributed to medical research, supported environmental causes, and inspired people to pursue their dreams. At age 14 she swam 26 miles from Catalina Island to the California mainland. At ages 15 and 16, she broke the men’s and women’s world records for swimming the English Channel—a 33-mile crossing in 9 hours, 33 minutes, achieving her first record as the youngest and fastest in 1972. At age 18, she swam the 20-mile Cook Strait between North and South Islands of New Zealand. She was also the first to swim the Cape of Good Hope and the Strait of Magellan, the latter being the most treacherous 3-mile stretch of water in the world.
Lynne is best known for her swim across the Bering Strait on 7 August 1987. The swim opened the border between the US and Soviet Union. Both US President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev hailed her accomplishment at the signing of the INF Missile Treaty at the White House.
As a world-class athlete, Lynne has championed the sport of open-water swimming, advocated for Title IX, and managed the U.S. women’s water polo and led efforts to establish women’s water polo as an Olympic sport.
Lynne's books include Swimming to Antarctica, Grayson, Open Swimming Manual, Elizabeth, Queen of the Seas, Swimming in the Sink, and Tales of Al The Water Rescue Dog.
Lynne Cox
Swimming to Antarctica: Tales of a Long-Distance Swimmer, Lynne Cox
Yoshi, Sea Turtle Genius, Lynne Cox
Tales of Al:The Water Rescue Dog, Lynne Cox
Swimming in the Sink: A Memoir, Lynne Cox
South of the Sun: Roald Amundsen, His Polar Explorations, and the Quest for Discovery, Lynne Cox
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson Beverly. If you love reading books and independent bookshops, you're in the right place. Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast. Each week, I interview independent bookshop owners, booksellers, authors and publishing professionals from around the globe, along with specialists in subjects dear to my heart the environment and social justice. To help the show reach more people, please share it with friends and family and on social media, and remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast. You're listening to Episode 242.
Speaker 1:Lynn Cox is an American long distance open water swimmer, motivational speaker and author. Over the course of more than 35 years, lynn accomplished swims setting world records, opening borders, contributed to medical research, supported environmental causes and inspired people to pursue their dreams. At age 14, she swam 26 miles from Catalina Island to the California mainland. At ages 15 and 16, she broke the men's and women's world records for swimming the English Channel a 33 mile crossing in 9 hours 33 minutes, achieving her first record as the youngest and fastest in 1972. At age 18, she swam the 20 mile cook straight between the North and South islands of New Zealand. She was the first to swim the Strait of Magellan, the most treacherous 3 mile stretch of water in the world. Lynn is best known for her swim across the Bering Strait on August 7, 1987. The swimmer opened the border between the US and Soviet Union. Both US President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev hailed her accomplishment at the signing of the INF Missile Treaty at the White House. Lynn was also the first to swim the Cape of Good Hope.
Speaker 1:As a world class athlete, lynn has championed the sport of open water swimming, advocated for Title IX and managed the US women's water polo and led efforts to establish women's water polo as an Olympic sport. Lynn's books include swimming to Antarctica, grayson South with the Sun Open Swimming Manual, elizabeth Queen of the Seas, swimming in the Sink and Tales of Owl the Water Rescue Dog the making of a super athlete. Among Lynn's awards are Los Angeles Times Woman of the Year, glamour Magazine Woman of the Year, university of California, santa Barbara Award for Courage, an induction into the International Swimming Hall of Fame, a Russian Cape on the shores of Lake Baikal and Asteroid 37588, part of the chain of pearls, bears her name. Lynn lives in Southern California where she swims, writes and works on inspirational projects. I was lucky enough to be in conversation with Lynn at the Alincanto Lunch with the North Literary Series in Santa Barbara and I'm now thrilled to have her on the podcast. Hi, lynn, and welcome to the show. It is great to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Mandy. I'm really happy to be meeting with you and talking with you today.
Speaker 1:I feel honored twice in a couple of months. It's fabulous. Let's start at the beginning. What inspired Lynn Cox from Manchester, new Hampshire, to become an open water long distance swimmer?
Speaker 2:I was one day when I was training with a swim team in Manchester, new Hampshire, and it started raining really hard. All of the kids wanted to get out of the pool but I knew that if I get out I would have to join them and do four hours of calisthenics. I really, really, really hated calisthenics. I loved to swim. I asked the coach could I stay in and swim longer in the rain? He said okay. Then two of his swimmers from Harvard said Harvard University said we'll stay in the water as well. It started raining harder and it got colder. They left the pool but I kept swimming for four hours. When I got out of the pool I had had so much fun.
Speaker 2:One of the mothers of the team, mrs Milligan, came over to me and said aren't you cold, lynn? I'm like no. She said well, I bet one day you're going to swim the English Channel. That was in my brain when I was nine years old. Then all these other things happened where we would eventually move to California and start training with the Olympic coach, don Gamble. He would see my ability to swim long distances and suggested I do a three mile ocean swim. I did that and I won the women's division and came in third in the men's and heard about a group of kids that were going to swim the Cadillac Channel. I asked if I could join them and trained with them for just six weeks, when I was 14 years old, and there were two other 14-year-old kids and a 12-year-old boy. Then we swam from Cadillac.
Speaker 1:Island to the mainland. Wow, that's impressive. What was your time for that swim Took us 12 and a half hours and none of them ever wanted to do a long swim again.
Speaker 2:That was the beginning for me. I realized that's when I wanted to swim the English Channel that maybe I had the ability. I talked to my parents the next day and said will you help me do this? They said yes. I looked back at that moment. I think how many parents would say when you have a 14-year-old boy, I want to swim the English Channel, but you've helped me do it. The parents just say okay, but I was fortunate. I was also fortunate that the coach was willing to change workouts and have me do lots of long distance swimming in the ocean instead of in the pool. That's where I started acclimating to the cold and really getting ready.
Speaker 1:You had siblings around you, too, who were also swimmers, right.
Speaker 2:Right, it was a family sport. My mom swam, my mother's father swam, and then my siblings, my older brother and two sisters. They wound up. Two sisters wound up being on the United States Water Pool team and my brother wound up swimming the English Channel and Cadillac Channel as well. In fact, he held the Cadillac Channel in one direction, then I held it in the other direction.
Speaker 1:Yes, I remember you wrote about this in your book and it was so sweet because you didn't want to break his record. So you slam in the opposite direction.
Speaker 2:There's something where I looked up to him and we swam together a lot, trained together a lot in the ocean for a few years and so I didn't want to take away his record. I think partly because when I was 15 I swam the channel and broke the world record for men and women and shortly after davis heart from springfield mass broke my time. So I went back the following year and broke the men's record again and so I kind of felt what it was like to have a record and have it broken very quickly. I didn't want to try to break my brother's record, I wanted it to stand on its own and it did for years and is one way more difficult than the other.
Speaker 1:You know both ways are difficult. I can't say when you're swimming.
Speaker 2:When you're swimming eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve hours, whatever their long swims and their challenges throughout. And you know the days are all different. So there might be a day where the water super common, you get to go, or the day that you were selected to swim, it's really windy and it's really rough, and so that's what's hard, because when I swam the channel second time, the current for stronger and so the first time I swam thirty miles, second time I swam thirty three miles, but I still swim about twenty minutes faster. So you really have to be focused to be able to keep that pace. And then also toward the end of the swim, when you're the tiredest, you really have to sprint to finish this one, because the currents are always so strong off the french coast and there are people that get within a mile of shore after swimming for hours and they just can't get in.
Speaker 1:It's just awful yeah, that must be heartbreaking. Yeah, yeah, I recently listened to your episode on the podcast. This is love about your encounter with an eighteen foot baby gray whale, and I will make sure to put the link in the show notes, but for anybody listening, please listen to. This episode is absolutely beautiful. You are seventeen when this happened. Can you share this experience and how it shaped your respect for all creatures? And on that day, what swim were you training for?
Speaker 2:Training to swim, catalyne again with the idea of breaking the world record. So I was training on my own in the early morning and it was a Saturday and I thought, okay, I'll just do a short workout today, be done and go see my friends. Well, it turned out that while I was swimming there was a baby whale who lost his mom, who started following me. And there was a man named steve who ran the bait shop on the pier who explained to me that I couldn't swim ashore because baby whale would follow me and might go around and die. So for hours I swim with him off seal beach Hoping that his mother would return. And during that process there were lifeguards, there are fishermen, there were people in the pier that were all watching for his mom, trying to find her.
Speaker 2:And you know, I just stayed with this baby whale and I didn't really know how do you find a whale in the ocean and will the mom ever come back again? And you know, you didn't think those things. You just sort of stayed with the baby whale and so at some point he was a son of the gray whale, so I named him and the story has a very happy ending and actually I wrote a book about it that's been translated now into 23 languages and it was written about 20 years ago now and so many people through the years have said it's such a great story. Have you thought of writing it for children? So now I've done a picture book based on that grace and story and have sent it out just now to a variety of publishers with the hope that they'll want to publish it and I'm hoping so, because the last book I wrote you see turtle genius Just get the Kirkus redo as the best picture book with animals for 2023, so I think that may help also with this new picture book and Race and sold 10 years ago more than 100,000 copies.
Speaker 2:So I think that there's a popular area of the story of Connecting with a whale and being in the water, and back then, when this all occurred, we didn't know what we know about whales. We didn't know that mother whales will bring the baby graze over to boats and let people pet them and show them off and display them to people. Back then we didn't know that they communicated the sounds they made, and so it was really great to be able to go back now and write this children story and be able to have the words to identify the things that I was hearing, because I didn't have that 3040 years ago.
Speaker 1:What you write. I think the timing is absolutely perfect for this new version of grace and for children as a picture book. I'd love to hear about the illustrators you use for your children's books.
Speaker 2:The book about my turtles done by Richard Jones, and he has won numerous awards for his illustrations. He's british and his work is extraordinary. So what normally happens now that with the children's book is I will submit it to a publisher and an editor will look at it and decide if he or she wants it and then, based on what they offer and what the rights are and all that, then they will determine who they want to illustrate the book there are. I've worked with another illustrator, barren falca, in the past on the book called Elizabeth, queen of the seas, about an elephant seal that chose to live in Christchurch, new Zealand, and he did beautiful illustrations.
Speaker 2:The only problem was that he was so known well known because he had done the calico award that it, by the time he had done the illustrations, that had taken five years. So I'm not willing now in this time of life to wait five years for somebody to illustrate. Besides, I really would like to do a sea, a sea series and ocean series and bring up stories that I've heard of that are based on real life or stories that I've encountered through my swims and have a whole series developed that way. So I'm hoping that with this next book that I'm calling once upon a whale that the publisher will see this as a really great way to teach children about the ocean, to have them connected with it, to enjoy that and the exploration of it, and so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1:Well, I wish you all the best with that. Let's talk about your dedication and compassion. To complete the bearing straight crossing on august 7 1987. Because that swim opened the border between the US and Soviet Union. Both US president Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev hailed your accomplishment at the signing of the INF missile treaty at the White House. So when and why did you decide to use swimming to unite countries?
Speaker 2:Well, actually I was a freshman in college and at the University of California, santa Barbara, and actually I had a dorm room that looked out over the Pacific Ocean and I started training out there for the swim. My dad had pulled out a map of the world and said look at the bearing straight. Why don't you think about swimming from little dimey to big dimey, to two islands in the middle of the bearing straight? And I looked at him and thought there's no way. I mean, it's gotta be too cold. And he explained that it was only 2.7 miles from the United States to Soviet Union now Russia and so I started thinking about it and the idea really captivated me. But the big challenges were were how do you swim in? Eventually found out, the water was 38 degrees. So how do you swim in 38 degrees in a swimsuit, cap and goggles? And how do you get a board that's been closed for 48 years open?
Speaker 2:So I spent the next 11 years working on that, every single day, trying to get the political permission for trying to get sponsorship, for trying to train for it, and I actually went to know molaska and trained offshore with a team of people who volunteered Dr Keating from the University of London who was a world's expert in hypothermia, jan Nyber from the University of Alaska, who was a physician, and then press from LA Times, from People Magazine, from Associated Press.
Speaker 2:They came along and documented the swim but it wasn't until the morning before I flew out to Little Dimey that I get permission and it came directly from Gorbachev. But it was exciting. It was changing world changing because the swim did open the border for the first time in 48 years and you know, people that lived on both sides of the border were able to see each other for the first time in all those years. Families were united, the border was open, the families could travel back and forth without passports, alaska Airlines started flying the Pacific Coast from the Pacific United States to the Soviet Far East, trade opened up and all sorts of other things happened during this period of glass nost. So I wrote about that a lot in my book Swimming to Antarctica, because I think that that was pretty much the most important thing that I've ever done, because it really changed the way things were.
Speaker 1:I felt your swim on Lake Titicaca had the same meaning. It brought people together.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really great because I mean, I was swimming from Chile to Peru and so from Bolivia to Peru. I did a different swim in Chile, but I did a swim from Bolivia and Lake Titicaca to Peru and I was really trying to celebrate the openness of the borders there, that there's no border on the lake, even though the border runs through the lake. People on both sides of the border see each other and are with each other and actually there were Amaran Indian people that came down to meet me at the finish of the swim. It was really amazing.
Speaker 1:And I would like to suggest to people go on YouTube, google Lincox and watch videos of Lin doing these swims. They are amazing the turbulent water, the icy, cold water and then the greetings when you get to your destination. It's wonderful to watch, and especially if you're red, swimming to Antarctica, oh my goodness.
Speaker 2:It was really. It was amazing in a way, back to your Lake Titicaca swim. When I did the swim, there were people Amaran Indians, and their native dress were coming down from the hills to see me in a swimsuit. They'd never seen anyone swim before. And here I'm speaking English. And then turns out the Bolivian national swim team came and also met on the shore. So suddenly the Amaran Indians are meeting the national swim team of Bolivia and our crew is landing on shore and a good friend of ours, deborah Ford, was on board the boat when I was doing that swim and they were trying to come ashore and trying to figure out where. And I was really cold because you're at altitude there, you're at 12,500 feet and the water temperature was 50 degrees, so you can't swim at the normal rate that you normally swim, so you're not making the heat that you make, so you're really really cold. So Deborah had my clothes and inner arms and she jumps in waist deep water and wades ashore with the clothes and basically wraps me up and makes sure that I'm warm. And all these people are coming around and greeting us and celebrating this moment and it was really amazing and I think that that's part of the reason why I've done these swims is that they do bring people together and suddenly it's people that may not have had any other reason to meet before.
Speaker 2:The swim that I did across the Beagle Channel from Argentina to Chile, that was about connecting Argentine and Chile, argentina and Chile and having the swim do that, and it turned out that it was a really big challenge to do it, because when I was doing it, argentina and Chile were not friends at all, so I had to get support from the Argentine Navy and with the Chilean Navy, to be able to swim across, and they didn't want to set a precedent for going all the way back and forth. So at the end of the swim, I had both Navy's coming together in the middle of the Beagle Channel and celebrating together and they sang their national anthems on the boat and on the ship and it was just like this is really, really amazing. And actually, a few years later, I was told by the American ambassador to Chile that, because of that precedent that was set, there were two officials. Well, the presidents of Chile and Argentina met on an oil rig in the Strait of Magellan to be able to sign away rights about oil. So you never know what people will point to as an example of something that worked and then use that to do something much more. And that's what's really exciting that creativity that comes from something like this.
Speaker 2:Because initially the Bering Strait swim was so hard because people just didn't imagine it could be possible.
Speaker 2:So it's very difficult to get any kind of support, and so the people that do actually come on board and make the difference are people that have imagination, that have worked hard to do extraordinary things and that are willing to be creative and help out in the moment that things don't work out the way they need to go.
Speaker 2:And so when I did the swim in Antarctica, we were concerned about my going into hypothermia and having to be pulled out of the water. So it turned out one of the crew members, bob Griffith, was from Nebraska and he was cow roping champion. So we set it up so that if I had a problem, that one of the guys, dan Cohen, would jump in the water, swim with me, swim to me in his wet suit, his dry suit, and then Bob would throw a lasso and rope it around me and then they'd pull me into the boat. Unfortunately that didn't have to happen, but we think of these things as all sorts of backups, for we have like a plan and then a B and a C plan, and then have people that are smart enough to come up with something else if those things don't work.
Speaker 1:And speaking about your teams, did they change very much over the years when you were doing these swims?
Speaker 2:Yes, the teams changed and it really depended on who was available and who wanted to come, and often these projects were half funded or self-funded, so that also played a part in it.
Speaker 2:But I always had a small crew of people that were very capable, like the Bergen Strait it was Jan Nybor and Bill Keating.
Speaker 2:And then there were key people that were from the area that provided the boat support the Inuit from Little Dimee because they were the experts navigating the currents and tides and knew what to do and without their support it would not have happened. But it was also really important to have the media there because they documented it and they showed what we did and it was shown around the world. And then a few months later, to have Gorbachev and Reagan sign the INF Missile Treaty and say that the swim helped to further that and open the border. It was amazing and what. I hope that through that people get ideas that you don't always have to go the standard way, you don't have to do something that somebody else did. You can find your own path and you can make your own way, and often it's a lot harder because you're starting from where you are versus where somebody's cleared the path for you, but I've also had great mentors and that's made a huge difference.
Speaker 1:When we have a vision for example, you and one of your swims there might be people around you that can't do the swim, but they might be able to give money terribly, which is a huge help. Or maybe there's something else that they can do because people want to help you with your vision. Somebody always surprises me.
Speaker 2:And actually that's it's really been interesting, because you know people have certain skills, but suddenly, when they're thrown into a situation where you're going to go across a lake in Iceland and you have support there for the swim, but suddenly you might need some additional support, and somebody in that group knows what to do, and you're like wait, I didn't know he would know how to do that. You know, or, and, and it's, it's really amazing, what adventure, what doing something new spurs as far as creativity, that you know people are amazing and their imaginations are incredible. And what suddenly, when you brainstorm, you know you see that all happening With the ideas that come up that you would never have thought of before. But I think that's one of the things that was so difficult during code, where people are so isolated and Remote from each other. And now they're coming back together and ideas and conversations are beginning to develop again and the ideas are emerging that may not have emerged if you hadn't talked to somebody about it.
Speaker 2:In writing, a single sentence. You can read the sentence and you think about one thing, but If you're not conversing with somebody else, sometimes that idea doesn't go any further.
Speaker 1:but then you bring your magic to it and it changes everything you know, yes, and that's when the magic happens, that wonderful collective creative energy. Okay, let's move on to writing. When did you decide you wanted to write, and was it difficult for you to get started?
Speaker 2:I always wanted to be an author. I love to read, I love books. We had competitions in elementary school. We had to read as many books as we could a month and then write Summaries of the book, and whoever would do the most of them would get a free book. And so I was reading so many books as a kid just because I love to read. I love the stories, but I love to win. I love to win a single book and there was one, one boy in particular, that I was always competing against. But I think that that was what really got me going and in terms of wanting to write.
Speaker 2:And then, through my life, I was so fortunate because I went to last all the years high school in last only is California, and I went at a time where they were teaching amazingly creative courses. So I took a course in Shakespeare, in biology, in psychology, in A variety in semantics. So I had English teachers in particular that were really supportive of my writing and I decided when I went to university, california, santa Barbara that I wanted to be a writer but I didn't really want to study English. I decided I wanted to study history because I wanted to figure out how people made a difference in the world. How were they ordinary people and how did they become extraordinary? And what was it in their lives that shape them? Or are they shaped? The life around them? That makes sense.
Speaker 2:So I studied history, but I also took a large number of creative writing courses and there were two professors there, john Ridland at the University of California, santa Barbara, and Steve Alaba, who really encouraged me to write, and so I started writing and I. My first version of swimming to Antarctica was my senior year, college, and it would only take eleven rewrites and twenty one years before I would get it published. And swimming to Antarctica, that's all it took to do it. I was incredible, oh, my goodness but I think it was.
Speaker 2:You know how you draw from what you've done so that that focus and never give up on a long distance swim. I did the same thing with with writing, and, and also my cousin Alan Dalvio was a cinematographer Spielberg and his cousin, my second cousin, was and rice. So for years he kept saying give me a book, I'll give it to, and finally, at the twenty one year mark I said please give it to. And so he did and called me Doctor for the first time in my life and she said I'll get the book to my editor, and so that finally started on the process of getting published. So at the twenty two year market, get published.
Speaker 2:And it became a New York Times bestseller, number thirteen on the list and it has sold more than a hundred and twenty thousand copies now through the years and Translated into three or four different languages, I can't remember. But it's still selling, which is to me valid validation that it was worth doing it. And what I love now is that when somebody writes to me and says I read swimming to Antarctica and I decided to become an open water swimmer or I've had really difficult struggles in my life and I read swimming to Antarctica and help me through to the next part of my life. Those things you know. You just go my gosh. You know. You realize how powerful what you've learned and what you've learned from other people can be to other people and the style in which the book is written.
Speaker 1:I remember I started reading it and I went oh my goodness, I couldn't put it down. It was like reading a thriller. At times I felt I was actually in the water with you, freezing cold, and I just wanted to spur you on. It was fantastic. It is an inspirational book. In fact, I can honestly say that after I finished reading it, I decided to go ahead with something that I have been putting off for years. So that's what your book did for me. It's powerful.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:After the event where we're in conversation at Ellen Canto in Santa Barbara, I had so many emails from people who'd been there saying how much you inspired them. So I think that's wonderful, because not all authors are good speakers, good verbal storytellers, and you have that gift. Wow, oh, that's great, thank you. In your book, tales of al the water rescue dog, you write about which breeds of dogs more suited to ocean swimming and why, but you also give this great description of when you were swimming with al and how you went under the water to actually see how his body was working while he was swimming. I'd love to hear more about this and also about what you learned from swimming with dogs and what inspired you to write the book.
Speaker 2:I'd love to the newfoundlands have web pause, so their paws are massive already, but then they have webbing between them and when they swim they swim sort of a breaststroke and abbreviated breaststroke. And they are so strong and the reason why they've been using them for water rescue dogs in Italy Is because they can pull up to six people in at one time. They're so strong and so powerful and when you watch them swim also, you can see that they just rest their chin on the water, so they're totally comfortable in the water and it's it's where they're happy and it's sort of where I was happy to. So it's so much fun to watch them swim, to dive down underneath them and and see them just these powerful strokes that they did. And then, you know, the other thing was with going to Italy and watching the dogs train. I saw that they also worked with the Labrador's and the German shepherds, italian Spononi and a few other golden retrievers, and those dogs were all being used as water rescue dogs, which was fascinating to me because I've never seen anything like that before.
Speaker 2:You know, you hear about people having lifeguards in the beach. Well, in Italy there are many people that do not know how to swim and you've got all that beach space, and so the people that are members of the school work with the dogs and then voluntarily train and prepare and go out on the beaches and lifeguard. And so there in July, a couple of years ago, two labradors and two owners went out and pulled something like 16 kids out of the ocean that had been on inflatable rafts that had suddenly been blown off shore and they rescued them all. It was basically because the training is a fun thing for the owner and the dog. It builds this connection and confidence between the two, but it's also that they're doing something really wonderful for their community and I think that that is just extraordinary and I really wanted to write about that and that's what I wrote about in Tales of Al.
Speaker 2:But I also wrote about this one dog in particular. Her name was Al and she was two years old at the time and she was just learning how to be a good dog and she had some challenges because she was thought to be not really focused and in terms of real life, she was far more than focused. And as you read the story, you find out that these things that are bad things about her really aren't bad, that there's something else going on, and that's what I discovered during this time with her and her owner. It was so much fun to watch them train, to be in the water with them to work, to see how the puppies were learning how to swim and how the older dogs would be used to train the younger dogs, and how you know there were the little puppies would be racing each other through the water and the big old dogs would be standing on shore barking and cheering them on. So it was just really extraordinary and fun.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of people swimming in lakes and rivers in Europe and that's the kind of swimming I grew up with in Tasmania and Australia, because I was terrified of the ocean.
Speaker 2:But in Tasmania. In Tasmania don't you have to worry about all sorts of critters that are in those lakes?
Speaker 1:too. I mean, there's always leeches around, that's one thing, and jackjumpers, which are ants and they have a highly venomous venom, and there's snakes there. You know you have to be careful of them when you're coming out of the water, but I wasn't really that scared. Oh, and the eels, of course. But the ocean in Tasmania that's another story altogether, because we have blue ringed octopus, a lot of different jellyfish, and where the warmant waters are, you have the box jellyfish which you don't want to come in contact with, and of course you have great white sharks. And the ocean is wild down there. In particular, we have the bass straight which separates Tasmania from the mainland of Australia. There are a number of reasons why this is a danger stretch of water. I guess it's got something to do with the low latitude, roaring 40s producing powerful winds and the currents. And yet they have the Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race every year from there, so we lose boats all the time.
Speaker 2:Leave it to Australians to do something really crazy.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly. Plus, I remember growing up the water was always super cold in Tasmania and there was this undertow that was so strong I'd just knock you over, you know. So between all that, I stayed out of the ocean most of my younger life.
Speaker 2:There is a reason for that.
Speaker 1:Just put me in the mountains and I am a happy girl. Okay, I would love to know what you're working on now, and have you ever thought about writing a fictional book in your future?
Speaker 2:No, I know I studied history in college and I wrote a book called South of the Sun, which is about Amundsen becoming the first man to reach the South Pole. I thought, you know, there had been books on Scott and Shackleton and they were dramatic failures and people died, and I thought I need to write about Amundsen because he was so pragmatic and he succeeded. So I spent seven years working on this book, going to the archives, looking at all original documents, not using any secondary sources, and so when I write, I try to write from the standpoint of the facts, not from fiction. So back to I've written that new book, once Upon a Whale. I am starting on a series and hopefully the Once Upon a Whale will be launched and I will be able to continue on with some other stories that I've been, that have been sort of in the back of my mind, that are now coming to the forefront, and I think it helps so much, though, when you get a yes from something and then suddenly the energy to go forward with everything else, and I you know. You know that there's been a screenplay about Grayson that Chris Carter created with my help, and so we're waiting to hear if something will develop with that and that could turn into a film, and so those are exciting things.
Speaker 2:But for me, I'm getting back also into doing a lot more speaking. I do motivational talks for corporations, and the book Tales of Al was selected by the community of Huntington Beach as a community read. So next month I'm doing a whole series of talks for the community of Huntington Beach and that's really amazing because when you do something like that you're reaching all kinds of ages in that community and people of all different ages are talking to each other about a single book and after that you don't know where the conversations go. I mean, you hope that that develops something more, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, it sure seems timely for your children's book series to become published, because we are always in need of stories that teach children about protecting animals, protecting marine life. I believe we all learned whose storytelling. Children learn empathy from these stories. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that the next generation is really smart and they'll realize the things that need to be done and be able to invent things that we don't know about now to clean up the water, clean up the air, protect the environment, because it's where we live. I mean, it goes back to the Native American Indians and maybe the Aboriginals in Australia, where they had a sense of connection much deeper to the earth than maybe our ancestors did. I don't know that, but I think that having a reverence for the earth and the oceans maybe can be learned and applied and the next generation will be able to do something more than we've done. But all that sort of comes from education. You know, I didn't know about the problems of the earth and pollution until I read Silent Spring by Rachel Carson or heard about David Brower's books or All the Above, and then took environmental studies courses at Yishitana Barba and realizing that we have an impact on the earth but we can also change that impact to a positive impact.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. One thing before we go I wanted to talk to you about when you swam in the Nile in Egypt. Oh, my goodness, I started dry reaching while I was reading that part of the story and I wondered have you been back there since?
Speaker 2:No, actually I was invited back but I had gotten so sick because I was told it was okay to drink the water from the tap.
Speaker 2:It wasn't, so I was sick before I even started to swim and then wound up making 15 miles and sort of passing out in the water and being pulled out of the water and it was a really awful experience, you know, because there were dead rats floating by and I put my hand through a dead dog and it was just gruesome and the smells and the feeling and the stuff that you're moving through. But at the same time it was a really important lesson for me when I was 17 years old that no swim is worth risking your life and when in doubt, get out and when you're not feeling well, stop, because if you do that then you may be able to come back another day if you choose to do that, but if you keep going you might not be okay. So that was a huge lesson to learn way back then. But I learned it and then continued on doing really wild and amazing, fun and difficult and challenging swims and using them to connect countries and people.
Speaker 1:Lynn, I think you're wonderful, I love your stories, I love your books, I love chatting with you and I wish you all the best with your children's series and thank you for everything you've done and are continuing to do to make the world a better place.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Mandy. It was so much fun talking with you today. It was great.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to my conversation with author Lynn Cox about her books Swimming to Antarctica, grayson South with the Sun Open Swimming Manual, elizabeth Queen of the Seas. Swimming in the Sink and Tales of Al the Water Rescue Dog the Making of a Super Athlete. To find out more about the Bookshop podcast, go to the bookshoppodcastcom and make sure to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to the show. You can also follow me at Mandy Jackson Beverly on X, instagram and Facebook and on YouTube at the Bookshop podcast. If you have a favorite indie bookshop that you'd like to suggest we have on the podcast, I'd love to hear from you via the contact form at the bookshoppodcastcom. The Bookshop podcast is written and produced by me, mandy Jackson Beverly, Theme music provided by Brian Beverly, executive Assistant to Mandy, adrienne Otterhan and Graphic Design by Francis Verralla. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next time.