In this episode, I chat with Shelf Life Books owners Chris and Berkley McDaniel about the switch from corporate life to purchasing an indie bookshop, things to do and see in Richmond, Virginia, cats, and books!
Formerly known as Chop Suey Books, Shelf Life Books is the largest independent bookstore in Richmond, VA, and has served the Richmond community for over two decades. Located in the heart of Richmond’s Carytown district and owned by Chris and Berkley McDaniel, the store is staffed by long-time patrons and is a hub for local authors and book lovers alike. They offer new books on their lower level and five rooms of used books upstairs, along with their two cats, Page and Mylar.
Shelf Life Books
The Bitter Southerner Read Banned Books T-shirts
The House is on Fire, Rachel Beanland
All The Colors of the Dark, Chris Whitaker
Memory for Forgetfulness: August, Beirut, 1982, Mahmoud Darwish
In this episode, I chat with Shelf Life Books owners Chris and Berkley McDaniel about the switch from corporate life to purchasing an indie bookshop, things to do and see in Richmond, Virginia, cats, and books!
Formerly known as Chop Suey Books, Shelf Life Books is the largest independent bookstore in Richmond, VA, and has served the Richmond community for over two decades. Located in the heart of Richmond’s Carytown district and owned by Chris and Berkley McDaniel, the store is staffed by long-time patrons and is a hub for local authors and book lovers alike. They offer new books on their lower level and five rooms of used books upstairs, along with their two cats, Page and Mylar.
Shelf Life Books
The Bitter Southerner Read Banned Books T-shirts
The House is on Fire, Rachel Beanland
All The Colors of the Dark, Chris Whitaker
Memory for Forgetfulness: August, Beirut, 1982, Mahmoud Darwish
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a bibliophile. Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast. Each week, I present interviews with authors, independent bookshop owners and booksellers from around the globe, publishing professionals and specialists in subjects dear to my heart the environment and social justice. To help the show reach more people, please share episodes with friends and family and on social media, and remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast. To financially support the show, go to thebookshoppodcastcom, click on Support the Show and you can donate through. Buy Me a Coffee. Okay, now let's get on with the show. You're listening to Episode 248.
Speaker 1:Formerly known as Chop Suey Books, shelf Life Books is the largest independent bookstore in Richmond, virginia, and has served the community for over two decades. Located in the heart of Richmond's Kerrytown district and owned by Chris and Berkeley McDaniel, the story is staffed by longtime patrons and is a hub for local authors and book lovers alike. They offer new books on their lower level and five rooms of used books upstairs, along with their two cats, paige and Myla. Hi, chris and Berklee, and welcome to the show. It's great to have you here, thank you it's great to be here.
Speaker 1:I like and appreciate your Read Banned Books t-shirt Berklee. Is that one from your store?
Speaker 2:No, this is from the Bitter Southerner. It's a southern literary magazine, bittersouthernercom, and they have all kinds of fun stuff there.
Speaker 1:I'll make sure to put their link in the show notes.
Speaker 2:Oh, they'll love that.
Speaker 1:Well, let's begin with learning about you both and what you were doing before becoming independent bookshop owners. Chris, why don't you begin?
Speaker 3:Sure, I'll start. I was, and still am, a full-time technology product manager for the Federal Reserve.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, that sounds like more than a full-time job. It is so why did you buy the bookshop?
Speaker 3:We both always sort of dreamed that it would be fun to have a bookshop or a coffee shop when we retired from corporate America, to have a bookshop or a coffee shop when we retired from corporate America. And Berkeley was lucky enough to retire from corporate America first and he worked for one of our local bookstores, fountain Bookstore, with Kelly Justice- Volunteered and worked.
Speaker 3:And she's a wonderful human and has a wonderful bookstore and we've been very fortunate to know her and have her support and, um, I really think you should tell this, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So, um, I was at the, I was at fountain, I was working in the receiving in the back, where I spend most of my time. I like to do that kind of thing and, uh, I got a email and I just popped up on my phone and it was from the owner of the bookstore that we purchased and it said, hey, this is just crazy and out of the blue, but I'm gonna either sell the bookstore or shut this down. And I thought maybe you would have interest in buying it. And I said that's hilarious. I closed it and went back to receiving and thought about it and thought about it, and at the time when I would get home from work, it would usually be about the time that Chris was finishing her day and we would take our dog for a walk around the neighborhood to just catch up on the day and I said, hey, this hilarious thing happened today, got this email about buying the bookstore. Man, that's crazy. And Chris said, huh, we should do that.
Speaker 1:Oh my goodness, A year and a half later or felt like that.
Speaker 2:No, it was only 10 months.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, we decided to look into it and see if we could make it happen. And we were lucky enough to make it happen. So the timeline wasn't perfect, because in a perfect world we would both be able to dedicate full time effort. But you know, it was a, it was a huge opportunity and so we decided to take it.
Speaker 1:I happen to think that sometimes you just got to grab that hook and go with it. You know, life is short.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let me get this straight, Berkeley were you working in corporate America before you retired and started working at the bookshop?
Speaker 2:Yes and no, I was a telecom technician. I managed operations regionally for the state of Virginia for a company that repaired damaged cell sites. So I worked on 60 hours, 70 hours, 80, sometimes even 100 hour work week. So I was out in the field repairing things and also in front of a computer taking care of everybody else's schedules and working with the customers too. So yes, corporate America, but I got my hands dirty pretty much every day.
Speaker 1:How are you finding being in a bookshop every day?
Speaker 2:pretty much every day. How are you finding being in a bookshop every day? I love bookstores. I was a customer of the. You know that's how the previous owner, you know, knew to send me an email. He just looked up my information from the last special order from his store. So but yeah, I mean I prefer the behind the scenes kind of things. I'm more of an operational person in that sense, but I do love, you know, being on the floor talking to customers and hand selling. So yeah, it's a, it's a happy place for sure.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'd agree with that wholeheartedly. Now, one of the changes you made to the store was bringing in new books. What was the impetus for this change, and what other changes have you made since taking over ownership from the store's founder, ward Teft?
Speaker 3:The first thing that we did, both just us and then with our staff, was we came up with a set of values, and the idea was that we would let the values guide everything, guide all the decisions from there on out. And so our values they're kind of lengthy. I have them up if you wanted me to read them. Yes, I'd love to hear them. One of them is that we center marginalized voices. Another is that we aspire to be a safe space, and so we don't tolerate misogyny or racism or homophobism or any of the transphobia Like we don't tolerate it. And that begins with the staff and that begins with the books, and so we made sure that the staff we hired was diverse and inclusive in their outlook on things. And as we went through and inventoried books and we came across titles that we did not feel aligned with our values, we purged them.
Speaker 1:What a wonderful idea. I would love to hear more of the values on that list. You know I'll get them wrong if I don't actually read them.
Speaker 3:It's fine, of course we believe in the ability and responsibility of individuals, communities and societies to evolve toward more just, peaceful, tolerant, sustainable and joyful ways of being. We believe in the transformative power of art, especially the written word. We talked about marginalized voices and safe space, and the other is we will listen when our community tells us we have failed and we will make amends and reparations wherever possible.
Speaker 1:I think we need to put that in every town hall across America. It's timely and beautiful, thank you. When I was researching the bookshop, I read that when you bought the place, you also inherited a mascot. Was the sale dependent on your adoption of this mascot, or have Myla and Paige taken over?
Speaker 2:adoption of this mascot, or have Myla and Paige taken over? Oh, wani, he had been there for a very, very, very, very long time and you know, wani and I were friends when I was in the store. There were people that he tolerated and there were people that he didn't, and I was one of the lucky ones. He was a rock star, is a rock star, and people came into the store specifically to see him. A lot of the social media was revolved around what was Wani doing any given day, and so we knew it was an integral part of the story and we knew he needed to stay with us, so that was part of the deal.
Speaker 1:And just for our listeners, Wani is a kitty cat.
Speaker 2:He is, he is.
Speaker 1:He was an older cat, so is he still with you.
Speaker 2:He passed in the fall.
Speaker 1:He was something like 17, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they give or take. They weren't positive on that number. Some said older, some said a little bit younger, but he had a fairly significant heart condition that he had been dealing with for some time and he had a cardiologist that he went to every six months. He just started to slow down and, you know, we knew that the time would come eventually. So we hired some interns and let the interns, Mylar and Paige, be trained by Wani, and then Wani retired to our house and in the late fall, sometime just before Thanksgiving, he just he told us it was time and he stopped eating.
Speaker 1:And Mylar and Paige are tuxedo kitty cats, aren't they?
Speaker 2:They are Not quite as the full tuxedo that Wani had, but definitely tuxedos and they're sisters.
Speaker 1:Well, I love the photographs of them on your website. They're so cute. Okay, we'd better get back to the bookshop, because otherwise I could talk about cats all day. What are you enjoying most about being independent bookshop owners and what have you learned about yourselves since purchasing the store?
Speaker 2:I love the individual conversations that I have with people, sometimes about books, sometimes not about books at all, sometimes about ideology and things that are going on in the world. So just being in that space, in a community space, those are the kind of things that should and do happen, and I think that's my favorite part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what I've noticed whether you're a bookseller in an indie bookshop or a customer, you can overhear people having conversations with each other, and indie bookshops make you feel safe to do that. You can just start talking to someone about a book. People who read are interesting people. I've mostly always read fiction, but lately I've been reading creative nonfiction. Creative nonfiction has that element of storytelling and quite often you are still asked to be in another's point of view, and I see this as helping us develop our empathy skills. Everything in our life comes back to stories.
Speaker 3:Storytelling is important. I say storytelling is important, even in corporate America. You know what is our story, what are we saying? What do we stand for?
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean, that's how we learn. Human beings learn through stories. And, chris, what have you learned from being an independent bookshop owner?
Speaker 3:Well, I'll say, something that I really like is feeling like we're part of the fabric of our local community, and nothing touches my heart more than when I, you know, when I hear someone say, oh, you know, it meant so much to me when I, you know, went here and felt safe, or that excitement that you feel when a customer comes in the store and we have that book that they're jazzed to read, you know, and that excitement, and so I really just love, I think, you know, when you're in corporate America, sometimes you can't help but feel like you're a cog in a wheel, and independent bookstore life is anything but that. We're doing all kinds of things, wearing all kinds of different hats, interacting with all kinds of different people and material, and it's all just fresh and wonderful.
Speaker 1:Well, while we're on the subject of community, for anyone with a few days in Richmond Virginia, what historic sites do you recommend they visit hiking trails to explore, and perhaps you could give us an idea of a few other independent businesses that are great to visit?
Speaker 3:Well, I love that. You're a big hiker, I love to be outside, and Richmond has a tremendous outside presence. In fact, outside Magazine voted Richmond the America's best river city in 2012, and we have miles and miles of trails all along the James River. You can go 12 miles and never know you're in the heart of a capital of a state in the United States of America. It's just beautiful wooded trails and everything. So I definitely recommend that seeing the river, seeing the James River Park system and all of its trails.
Speaker 3:The neighborhood that we're in is Carytown, which is a unique district. When I travel, I always like to see what makes the town different from every other town, and I think Carytown and the James River are two of those things. The neighborhood where our store is located has tons of locally owned boutiques. It has an old theater with a Wurlitzer organ that they still play before some of the movie showings. There's tons of great food, and if you stop in our bookstore, you can pick up books that have guides to Richmond. There's tons of great food and if you stop in our bookstore, you can pick up books that have guides to Richmond. There's a great one that sells really well called Really Richmond.
Speaker 3:And then a third thing about Richmond. I think that makes it unique, and we have a book about it in our store is called the Mending Walls Project, and I definitely encourage your listeners to look up mendingwallsrvacom. They're a group of people who have created murals all around Richmond and their motto is we need to talk, and the murals are created by artists who come together from different backgrounds and talk about issues, and the murals reflect diversity and things that are important to our community, and it's just really motivating and inspiring. And we actually have a mural inside our store as well, as our store signage was created by one of the Mending Walls artists, lizzie Brown, so there's a nice connection there too. If you go on their website or if you pick up their book, you can see, like, where in the city the murals are, and it's a great way to get to know the city Is that a coffee table book?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really beautiful. The photography is phenomenal and it's laid out just beautifully it sounds like a fabulous book and what a great introduction to Richmond. Would you say that Cary is a creative, independent hub or suburb of?
Speaker 3:Richmond. It's not a suburb, it's in the city. It's not downtown where all the tall buildings are, but it's definitely within the city and, yeah, I would say it's an independent shopping area. Richmond has a huge creative base. The Barton Agency is here. I think Richmond has one of the premier advertising and creative agency kind of presences outside of New York City in America, which is kind of surprising for a small city our size, but I don't know that Carytown itself is representative of that. We're not far from Virginia Commonwealth University though, which has a tremendous. The Brand Center at VCU is world-renowned, and it also has a very prestigious art school. They're also one of the first universities to have a master's in innovation program. So yeah, there's definitely a creative mindset to our city and we're happy to be a part of that.
Speaker 1:I've interviewed a few authors from the Richmond area. One of them is Bruce Holsinger. He wrote a book called the Displacements. I mean he's written many, many books. The Displacements is one of my all-time favorite reads. Anyway, my question is do you find you have a strong local author presence?
Speaker 2:We do Very large, very robust.
Speaker 1:Can you tell me about some of them?
Speaker 2:Oh, you're going to put me on the spot there. There are some wonderful poets on our list. We've got Ryan Kent, who is local here. We have Rachel Beanland, who has a really wonderful historical fiction about the fire in the early 1800s here. That, for a very, very long time, was the single largest catastrophe in the United States. For a very, very long time. That's called the House is on Fire, and that is really good.
Speaker 3:Rachel's been a huge advocate for the store. She's run all her book clubs through us and just been a really good showed what an independent bookstore author partnership can look like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, building that relationship with an author and a bookseller, it's magic.
Speaker 2:We have a writing group here called the James River Writers, which is a nonprofit that meets several times a month, and the list of authors there is just mind boggling. But those are just a couple that I picked up very quickly, but there are a whole lot more.
Speaker 1:While we're on this subject, I can't stress enough to authors the importance of building up relationships with independent bookshop owners and booksellers. I've had self-published authors who've come to me and said I've been to see booksellers in independent bookshops but they won't carry my books. And I say to them well, where do you buy your books? Do you buy them from that online place or do you support your local indie bookshop? I mean, it's so important to build those relationships with independent bookshop owners and the booksellers. Let's face it, bookshops only have a certain amount of room on their shelves. So if you're that person who's friendly with them, I think they're going to probably think about your book and the customers that you can bring to their store.
Speaker 3:I think Birdway was on a panel for the James River.
Speaker 2:Writers. I was on it. Almost exactly that recently it was indeed. We talked about the big A in the room.
Speaker 1:Yes, Amazon has been brought up on this podcast many, many times. Let's talk about book selling and owning a bookshop and the hard work that you have to put into it. I mean it's hard work and it's hard on your body.
Speaker 2:It is, it is.
Speaker 1:Did it take a lot for you to get used to the work in the store Berkeley, Especially the lifting of all those heavy boxes?
Speaker 2:There's a lot of lifting, there's a lot of walking, there's a lot of stairs. Did I mention there's a lot of lifting. There's a lot of walking, there's a lot of stairs. Did I mention there's a lot of lifting? Yeah, you know, being a new and used bookstore, yeah, you're moving a lot of books very often. Hang in there. I've had some surgery. I've had shoulder repair technically related to the store, but it definitely helped.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, I'm sorry to hear about your shoulder. One of the other things about working in an independent bookshop is shelving books, and I'm fine shelving fiction, but put me in a bookshop and asked me to sort out and shelve all the nonfiction. Oh my goodness, I find that tricky.
Speaker 2:It is a challenge all the time with nonfiction and every once in a while I think it was yesterday I found a novel that was in nonfiction and I think I had been putting it in the nonfiction for probably a few months. Myself, I don't normally do the floor restocking. Our staff is fantastic at all of those things and I try to stay as out of their way as possible. I mean, I do the buying, but I do the buying with help from them. I do the buying with help from our community, because that is the most important thing you listen, you listen and you listen and then that's what you put on the floor. But I was putting a fiction novel on the nonfiction and I guess they had just been moving it back where it belonged and just like a fiction novel on the nonfiction, and I guess they had just been moving it back where it belonged and just like bless his heart and just moving on. Yeah, there are a lot of those moments. There are a lot of those moments.
Speaker 1:Well, berkeley, I'm sure you are not the first independent bookshop owner to have done that and for all of the booksellers? Just to quietly move it back to its position, I can relate. Would you say that new or used books are more popular, and would you say you sell more fiction or nonfiction, and what genre of fiction is your most popular?
Speaker 3:We sell more used books than we sell new books and one of the things you know, along with our values, is we really embrace the used books because it makes quality literature affordable for anyone and it's also, you know, a more sustainable model than buying new books all the time, maybe not quite as good as a library, but it's still a good way. And as far as genres, fiction outsells everything else two to one, outsells everything else two to one that doesn't even include, like special genres, like graphic novels and manga, and also like fantasy. Those aren't even included in the fiction numbers that outsell everything else two to one and those are big sellers for us.
Speaker 2:Those categories Sci-fi, manga, translations, fiction. Translations are really big as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good to hear. That makes me happy. I also love reading books in translation and one of my favorites recently is Days in the Morisaki Bookshop. I just love that book. But when I'm asked what the book is about, I guess it's about relationships. I couldn't pinpoint a plot point or anything like that. All I know is I came away after reading it wanting to read it again and it was just charming. I just thought it was absolutely wonderful.
Speaker 2:Translated fiction helps you to understand the culture of that country, and I love the cadence and the rhythm of the writing are kind of an untapped area of books for most Americans and for most bookstores, although that's quickly changing and the publishers are catching up. So I think that's it's a really important. Going back to what you were talking about earlier, I don't read nonfiction. The brain over here reads the nonfiction and then explains it to me later. I'm an emotional reader and I learn about history through fiction that has truth woven in it and you will pick up a lot on different backgrounds, different communities, different countries and just ideology and things across the board, from the translations for sure. So those are the locked room mysteries. Lots of good locked room translated mysteries are big sellers for us.
Speaker 1:Oh, that sounds interesting. I've not read a translated locked room mystery. Is there a specific author you'd like to recommend?
Speaker 2:Sadeshi Yokomizu Pushkin is the publisher. Look for the Hanjin Murders H-O-N-J-I-N. I believe I don't think I'm misspeaking here, I think it is still since we reopened the store. I believe it is our number one we reopened the store. I believe it is our number one selling title in the store.
Speaker 1:New. Do you think you personally have had a lot to do with that by hand-selling the books?
Speaker 2:It's not just me, and actually that series has been around for a couple of years, but the whole staff, for sure Most of us, have read and enjoyed that series. He wrote over a hundred murder mystery novels in his lifetime and I think that there's a new one every year that's being published by Pushkin, and I just saw the advanced reader copy popped up this morning for the newest one and I'm really excited about that.
Speaker 3:But for sure what you said is important, like what we get excited about. What our staff gets excited about is what? But for sure what you said is important, like what we get excited about. What our staff gets excited about is what's going to sell in our store, right you? Just there's no substitute for that enthusiasm and passion and emotion that's associated with something you just read and you're so excited about and you want to share. I mean, that sells a book faster than anything. Yep.
Speaker 1:It really does, and it's fun Speaking of which. What are you both currently reading?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm reading two and listening to one, because I you know there's a lot of books out there and I'm new to listening. I'm listening to Fathom Folk by Eliza Chan, which is comes out today Almost done with that. It's wonderful. So happy pub day to her. And I'm reading. I have a morning book, whatever you want to call it. And then I have my before bedtime book and I'm reading Navola by Paolo Bacigalupi.
Speaker 2:I love saying his name, love saying his name. He is Paolo Bacigalupi, it just rolls off. He is primarily a cli-fi fiction writer, climate fiction, but this is the beginning of a fantasy series for him and it's really wonderful. His writing style is just beautiful. His choice of words always just makes me happy. And I'm also reading All the Colors of the Dark by Chris Whitaker, and both of these books are coming out this summer. Chris Whitaker wrote we Begin at the End, which came out, I believe, two or three years ago, which is still one of my favorite books. I cried so hard, which is still one of my favorite books. I cried so hard Again, I'm an emotional reader, so that's where I come from. So those are the three I'm doing right now.
Speaker 1:And what about you, Chris? I've just finished up with.
Speaker 3:Mahmoud Darwish's prose poem Memory for Forgetfulness. It's his recollection of the siege of Beirut in 1982, August of 1982. And we were just talking about how? Translation. You know what an appreciation for translated literature. This is nonfiction, but it's a work of art in translation. Even I can't imagine what it would be like in its original, but it's just beautifully written, it can appeal to anyone at any time. But reading it in this moment, with the siege of Gaza, and the parallels are so poignant, but his language is just incredible. There's some really beautiful passages about coffee. There's some really beautiful passages about coffee, the idea of memory and forgetfulness sort of being these axes for recalling an event. And you know, he also sort of juxtaposes the everyday, the getting of coffee, the watching of soccer, with the extraordinary events that are happening and it's just a masterpiece. So I'm kind of actually sitting with that for the moment.
Speaker 1:Can you repeat the name of the book, because I love that name?
Speaker 3:The title is Memory for Forgetfulness.
Speaker 1:Just beautiful. Anything else you're reading at the moment.
Speaker 3:I'm looking forward to Kava Akbar's Martyr. It's already selling well in our store, even just a few weeks in, and it just looks delightful. So I'm actually sitting with the Darwish for a minute because it was a lot and I've reread passages and I'm still thinking about it. So I kind of don't want to let go of it. I'm giving myself a little space, but that one's next up on my nightstand. Do either of you reread?
Speaker 1:books.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I'll reread parts of books at times but Not usually.
Speaker 3:But this one really grabbed me and I've gone back, I've read passages aloud to myself, I've read passages aloud to other people. I mean, it's just like he reached right in my chest and ripped out my heart and it's really moved me a lot. So I definitely am giving myself some space for it.
Speaker 1:I love what you said about sitting with it in that space for a while. That's the beauty of reading to me. We come up with all these emotions, whether it's joy, grief, sadness. It all needs to be sat with for a little while.
Speaker 2:I was having the conversation in the store with a customer a couple of weeks ago that there needs to be and there may be out there somewhere a word for the feeling you have you have finished a book that is so good that you can't possibly think the next book you read is going to be anything in comparison, and you need to give it time to just kind of sit.
Speaker 3:And then you'll find another one.
Speaker 2:That's just that good. It may not be the next one, but sometimes you you got to clear the palette and go from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd say books need to be digested. What I love about children and YA readers is when they get a book they love and hopefully it's a series. They cannot wait for that next book to read, and that's what catches them, what hooks them into reading. Seeing children reading warms my heart. It's wonderful, for sure. Chris and Berkley, it's been lovely chatting with you both today about Shelf Life Books and I wish you all the best with everything. And, chris, I hope you get to spend more time in the bookshop soon, that's the hope.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much. It was really good for you to have us and we enjoyed our time with you.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to my conversation with Chris and Berkeley McDaniel, co-owners of Shelf Life Books. To find out more about the Bookshop Podcast, go to thebookshoppodcastcom and make sure to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to the show. You can also follow me at Mandy Jackson Beverly on X, Instagram and Facebook and on YouTube at the Bookshop Podcast. If you have a favorite indie bookshop that you'd like to suggest we have on the podcast, I'd love to hear from you via the contact form at thebookshoppodcastcom. The Bookshop Podcast is written and produced by me. Mandy Jackson Beverly. Cast is written and produced by me Mandy Jackson-Beverly, Theme music provided by Brian Beverly, Executive assistant to Mandy, Adrian Otterhan, and graphic design by Frances Perala. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next time.