The Bookshop Podcast
The Bookshop Podcast
Madeline Martin's Journey from Corporate Life to Author
Madeline Martin, bestselling author of historical fiction and romance, joins us for an intriguing discussion on her journey from business analyst to full-time writer. Her childhood experiences as an army brat in Germany ignited a fascination with history, leading to meticulously researched novels. Set against the backdrop of World War II in Nottingham, this novel captures the emotional turmoil of a mother's decision to send her daughter away for safety.
Whether you're an aspiring writer or simply a lover of historical narratives, Madeline's story is a testament to the transformative power of following one's passion.
Madeline Martin
The Booklover’s Library, Madeline Martin
The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society, Mary Ann Shaffer, Annie Barrows
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a bibliophile. Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast. Each week, I present interviews with authors, independent bookshop owners and booksellers from around the globe and publishing professionals. To help the show reach more people, please share episodes with friends and family and on social media, and remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast. You're listening to Episode 274. Madeline Martin is a New York Times, usa Today, publishers Weekly and international bestselling author of historical fiction and historical romance, with books that have been translated into over 25 languages. She is a diehard history lover who will happily lose herself in research any day, and when she's not writing, researching or mumming, you can find her spending time with her family at Disney or sneaking a couple of spoonfuls of Nutella while laughing over cat videos. She also loves to travel, attributing her fascination with history to having spent most of her childhood as an army brat in Germany. I'm Madeline, and welcome to the show. It's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, Mandy. I've been looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Well, first up, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the Book Lover's Library. I thought it was wonderful and beautifully written, thank you. We'll come back to the book in a little while, but let's begin with learning about your childhood in Germany and what led you to write historical fiction and romance.
Speaker 2:So my dad was in the army growing up.
Speaker 2:He was career army and we lived in Germany for collectively about 12 years Darmstadt, würzburg and Bad Kreuznach because I know people always want to find out where we were stationed.
Speaker 2:So when we lived there my parents really embraced the opportunity to explore Europe and so we traveled all over Europe and in doing that we got to visit so many of these incredible old sites and we would usually hire, you know, we'd have a tour guide that you could go and kind of give you a little tour of the place.
Speaker 2:And the thing about these tour guides is they're so passionate about the topic that they're telling you about, and as a little girl who loves stories and fairy tales and being told all these different things too, I just absolutely devoured it. And so I really think that through the passion of all of those different tour guides and the beauty of all those historic locations that we visited, history just really sank its teeth into my heart, and I've always been a history lover. Ever since, and now, with writing historical fiction, I have discovered that not only am I a history nerd, I'm also a huge research nerd and I've always loved writing. But I think that I actually enjoy the research even more than the writing, or at least it's on par, because it's just something that I enjoy so much.
Speaker 1:Yes, I can relate. It doesn't take much to bait me to get me to go down a rabbit hole of research, that's for sure. In fact, after reading your book, I did some research about Nottingham and how the city was bombed in World War II. It was just so sad. I find research addictive.
Speaker 2:It really, really is. I always joke that if I didn't ever have a due date, I probably would research a book for like 25 years. So it's a good thing I have due dates, or I'd probably never be putting out books, I would just be completely ensconced in my research.
Speaker 1:Yes, I can relate. How about you give us a synopsis of the Book Lovers Library?
Speaker 2:Yes, this is a heartwarming home front read that is set in Nottingham, england, right at the cusp of World War II, where a widowed mother has to send her daughter away during the children's evacuation that really kind of consumed all of England at that time. And it's set in this wonderful location called the Book Lover's Library, which is based on a real lending library that actually existed then and you know I knew that a mother sending her daughter away was going to be a little bit heavier. And when I started to read a little bit more about the Book Lovers Library which I know that we're going to be getting into, you know, it just seemed like it offered a place of lightness and levity and just really the beauty of that bookish community that I really enjoy featuring in my stories.
Speaker 1:Now for our listeners, I'm actually going to recommend something Read the Book Lovers Library and reread the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society. I had the pleasure of interviewing in person Annie Barrows, one of the writers of that book, and there's some commonality between the Book Lovers Library and the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society, one of them being, of course, it's World War II, and they also both talk about how the children were sent away, and for many of these children and for the parents, it was six years that they were away. It must have been heartbreaking.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah. If children left at the first, like you know, when they were first told to leave in September 1939, and they didn't come back until they were told that they had the all clear to come back, it would have been six years. And I just have to say that I love the Guernsey Potato Peel Society as well. Such a good book.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I love the movie too. I thought it was wonderful. I like to think about the Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society and the Book Lovers Library as twin books. They're great to read together. Okay, now there was an article on the Boots website dated October 23, 2019, and it tells the story of FR Richardson, the head librarian at Boots for over 30 years, and how, in 1890, Florence Boots started to buy secondhand books from the big London libraries to sell in Boots and these books later became part of the Boots libraries. Now the libraries closed in 1966. And I was wondering were you able to speak with anyone who worked in one of the Boots libraries in the UK?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately. No, I really did actually try to reach out to Boots, to get someone to reach out back to me, especially when I was in Nottingham, because it would have been a prime opportunity for me to get to go and speak with them in person and maybe even get to look through some of their archives. When novelists reach out and say, hey, I'm writing a book. So I don't know if it was sort of an off put against that or maybe sometimes these places just get such an influx of emails that it's kind of like a slush pile and I didn't know anybody specifically to reach out to. But I did meet with a woman who was actually a tour guide. Her name is Felicity Whittle and she is a retired tour guide, so she couldn't technically take me on an official tour but she so generously donated her afternoon to walk around Nottingham with me and to really just share some of the bookish highlights of Nottingham and talk about, because the initial Boots chemist, which is, for our American listeners, chemists are basically like your pharmacies, like CVS or Walgreens, and so the very first Boots chemist is located in Nottingham and also the first store that had the first Boots Book Lovers Library was located there as well, and it was neat because I did get to actually see that building.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, the inside is now a Zara and so it's like these glossy white walls and halogen lights. Oh, it's heartbreaking. There's like no salt to it on the inside, but the outside is still so lovely. It's that you know that scrolling stonework and the stained glass windows and this lovely clock on the corner of the building. So at least I did have the opportunity to get to do that and get to see that, and it was so nice to take her afternoon to come out and just walk around with me and just talk about the Boots Book Lovers Library.
Speaker 1:When I lived in London in the 80s, I was a regular at Boots and for anyone interested in reading the articles I just mentioned, I'll make sure to put links in the show notes for you. Adeline, you are a prolific writer and you've also published in different publishing forms self-publishing and traditional publishing. What do you see as the pros and cons of both?
Speaker 2:So I think well, and I've also done small press as well, so I feel like I definitely have sort of run the gamut. So I started with small press and I do feel like that was beneficial in the fact that they really held my hands and sort of showed me the ropes as far as publishing, releasing a book, marketing, that kind of thing. I think that with independent publishing that was really helpful for me to getting a foothold into marketing and making sure that I was doing everything correctly, like little things, like making sure if you share something you have a link to attach to it. If you share it, a bunch of times always kind of include at least like one line about what the book is about. Little things like that, because when you're independent you don't have anybody pushing your book but you, and so you definitely need to make sure that everybody readers always have all that information available. Even if it's the fifth time that they've seen it, it could be somebody's first time seeing it. So I feel like it really was beneficial from that perspective. The difficult part is, again, you are the only person really sharing about your book, aside from friends that you, you know a network of colleagues sort of that you build over time, but everything really falls on you. You have to hire an editor, you have to hire somebody to do the cover, you have to do all the formatting yourself, all the uploading, and sometimes certain publishers can be difficult when they come back after you've tried to upload certain things.
Speaker 2:I've been very lucky to have success with my historical fiction, and my historical romance never took off to the capacity that my historical fiction has, and at one point I received an email from Amazon telling me that I had to change my name for my historical romances because I was trying to copy a successful author, that successful author also being me. Oh, my goodness, it took about two months to prove that I was in fact me, um, and and not have to change my name. So you know, having to do that from a uh, from an independent publisher's perspective, it's a little bit frustrating because I didn't really have a support network to go to and say, hey, there's an issue, can you fix this? And then you know, as far as traditionally published, I mean, obviously like I don't have as much control over the cover I they, although I have been very fortunate that the publisher that I've worked with has been very amenable to really making adjustments.
Speaker 2:In fact, with the Book Lovers Library cover I was able to add some little things on there, like on the very bottom row of books, for anybody that's looking at their book while they're listening to this podcast. You'll notice that one of the books has a little eyelet at the top of it and that's by design. I asked them to do that and it's because when people would check out books from the Boots Book Lovers Library they would have a little string with a token on the end of it and that's how they would check out their books and it would get threaded through that hole and people could use it as a bookmark while they were reading and they wouldn't lose their membership token for the next time they came in to get their books. So it's just a little sort of nod to the love of the Book Lovers Library and a little Easter egg sort of for readers to find after they've read the book.
Speaker 2:As far as I mean personally, I've been very fortunate in my traditionally published journey and I really don't have any complaints. I feel like they've been really wonderful as far as making sure that my book has all kinds of notice everywhere so that people know that it's coming out. I've gotten beautiful covers, I've had a lot of flexibility with choosing my narrator and they take me. You know I've done wonderful book tours that they've helped with and I mean it's really been a lovely experience.
Speaker 1:I mean, the cover of the Book Lovers Library is gorgeous. Thank you for that little bit of history. I love it. I often giggle when I hear the word self-publishing. Having self-published my own books quite a few years ago now, I think that that word is an oxymoron, because you cannot do it all yourself, maybe if that's your full-time job, but it takes a team to publish a book. You know you've got your formatter, your editors, your book cover designer, a team of marketing specialists. It's not only a team of people, but it costs quite a bit of money to do it correctly, and the issue with this is that it takes you away from what you love, which is writing.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Now, in reality, whether you're traditionally published by one of the big five, or you're an imprint, or you're with a small and medium press or a hybrid publisher, you still have to do a fair amount of your own marketing. I mean, that's just a given now and, sadly, that's why the author platform is important for nonfiction and fiction authors. While we're talking about publishing, I would love to hear your traditional publishing story, from your first finished and polished manuscript to finding an agent and landing a publishing deal.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness. So I think I've always kind of written books. I didn't realize that I had. But my mom, you know, we moved so much and she kept like every accolade I ever achieved in school, from like 100% on a spelling test to like honor student, you know, whatever. And so, um, when I was like about 25, she came at me with like five or six of these massive boxes that's moved back and forth over, you know, over the sea and everything and um, so I started going through them and it was amazing how many of these little like stories that I had started a chapter here or there, a plot here and there, I even had like a hardcover book that I had put together and illustrated myself when I was nine. And so I think I've always kind of wanted to write.
Speaker 2:I know, when I went to college I completely set writing aside because in my mind, real people don't become writers like that's, that's like you know, for like the Danielle Steele's of the world and like an average Madeline Martin. You know that just doesn't happen. And so I ended up going to college. I went to school for a degree in business administration and I minored in economics, political science and accounting and I just kind of tucked away books as far as writing them in the back of my mind and just kind of put it away. And then I was on maternity leave with my first daughter, who is now 18. And I got the idea, you know, I think I'm going to write a book, because I was reading Diana Gabaldon's Outlander and, you know, I really fell in love with sort of that brawny Scotsman and the feisty Sassanach, you know, and I thought, oh, this sounds like such a fun dynamic and I really wanted to explore it on my own. So I wrote a Scottish historical romance and then I went to a local writers group meeting, pregnant and with my second daughter at this point because now I'm at this point and we had done this sort of exchange of books with one another and I realized at that point in time, oh my gosh, I had no idea what I was doing. I was horrible. So I'm super type A In fact I like to joke that I'm so type A, I'm 12, point in time's new Roman font and at that point in time I just completely stopped everything. I didn't write a single word.
Speaker 2:I devoted the next five years to learning everything that I possibly could about the craft of writing. I listened to books on CD, so that'll tell you kind of how old, how long ago that was. I went to conferences, I attended workshops, I bought packets online to work through on my own. I became almost obsessed with learning everything that I possibly could about writing. So then I finally sat down and I wrote what was my first historical romance, Deception of a Highlander.
Speaker 2:And I finally wrote that out. I gave it to some of my friends and they said Madeline, this is really good, you should submit it to some contests. And so I submitted it to three nationwide contests and it finaled in all three. And then it won first place in all three and it finaled in all three. And then it won first place in all three.
Speaker 2:And so then I thought, okay, well, maybe my book isn't, as maybe my writing has at least gotten better after all of this work that I've done. And so I went to a conference and my dream agent at the time happened to be there and I pitched to her and she ended up offering representation. And so it was really wonderful. And I do joke that I didn't have, you know, the list of rejected agents, like a lot of people do, but it's also because I rejected myself first and so so I sold that first three book series to a small press and then I actually kind of started doing some self-publishing in between because the books were taking a little bit longer to come out and I had friends who were in self-publishing and they're like oh well, we could do an anthology and you could use it as like a novella for something and I thought, OK, that's perfect.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of how I got my feet wet with that. And at that time I also had been approached by Harlequin Historical because they my agent had submitted to them and they wanted to publish my books. So I was writing with Harlequin Historical but also writing self-publishing on my own, and I did learn that with self-publishing there's a lot of money to be made in self-publishing but unfortunately you do have to put out a book every other month. So I was still working. I was a business analyst and for some of these years as well I was also a single mother. Which is sort of where Emma being a single mother comes from is a lot of my personal experience in the book lovers library. So I was working a full time job. My kids were in every activity under the sun, and my kids always come first, no matter what. And for I'd say the last, like three years of me working my day job, I was writing six to eight romances a year.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that's a lot of books.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I mean, I really do think that for over a decade I probably got about four hours of sleep a night, just with as much as I was trying to learn and do and and, and I didn't want to sacrifice any of that time for my kids, and so I would wake up at like three or four o'clock in the morning and work, and then when they would go to bed I would work some more, but I never took any time away from them. So you know, I had been doing this for a while. I was exhausted and at work the writing was kind of on the wall. People were being laid off and I told my husband because I'm married now my own Mr Fisk and I told my husband, you know, if I get laid off, I think I would like to just write full time, to just give it a shot because I'm tired, and yeah, and so he said OK, and so I ended up getting laid off and it's horrible to say, but it was a very joyous experience for me because I was so looking forward to having the entire house to myself.
Speaker 2:I mean, even for for those years that I was writing, I have my own office now, but for a majority of it, I was working in the middle of the living room and trying to be on deadline. Working in the middle of the living room and trying to be on deadline. Working in the middle of the living room with two kids who always need mama. You know it's not super easy. So I thought, oh, this is going to be amazing after over, like you know, gosh, I think at this point it had been like, you know, 13 years finally getting to be home by myself, have the house to myself, the quiet and just right. And so this was February 2020.
Speaker 2:The pandemic happened, like three weeks later, and I was totally robbed Because nobody left for a long time. In fact, my husband's employer still has. They actually ended up selling their office building, so he works from home all the time. He's never, never at the office. And but you know, it did give me the opportunity to really devote myself to the historical research that was necessary to write the Last Bookshop in London. That was my first historical fiction that I wrote and it released in 2021. And when that book came out, I technically was a USA Today bestselling author, but admittedly it's because I was in an anthology with other historical romance authors who were much bigger names than I was and who published that book.
Speaker 2:The Last Bookshop in London. Yes, that was with Hanover Square Press, which is the current publisher that I'm still with, which is under HarperCollins. And so I had really hoped that I would at least hit the USA today bestseller list to sort of have that honor in my own right. And my girlfriend called, like you know, a week after the book had come out and she said, oh my gosh, you hit the USA today bestseller list. And I was just completely over the moon, um, and then later on that night I was driving to my daughter to dance and I got a phone call on speaker from my editor and I answered it and, um, and he said I want to let you know that you hit.
Speaker 2:And I'm thinking, oh no, he's going to say the USA Today bestseller list. And my youngest, who has like no filter, is going to say, oh, she knows, her friend already told her. And he said you hit number eight on the New York times. And, and you know, here I am, like you know, 14 years into this, like blood, sweat and tears, over over 35 books written, being exhausted for so much of this, sacrificing so much, and to finally hit the New York Times, which is an accomplishment. I never, ever dreamed that I would hit and I just burst into tears. And then I went home and I did laundry, because mom life doesn't stop, no matter what happens. But I had a glass of wine to celebrate while I did it.
Speaker 1:And for our listeners, you have written 43 books. That's incredible. Let's talk about writing. Do you have a specific order of preparation, research, outline writing and editing? Are you more of a free flow writer?
Speaker 2:I do all of my research up front. So I do about 10 months worth of research. In that time I also travel on location and I get to do a lot of on-hand research on site, which is huge for helping just really bring the story to life for me. And then I go through and I create all of the characters because I feel like the characters. You know they say that with nonfiction. If you want to read about what happened, you read nonfiction. If you want to know how people felt, you read historical fiction. And so the characters are the heartbeat of the story and their integral to really making a successful historical fiction. So they come before the plot and then the plot comes and I do a very detailed and thorough one, probably gosh. I probably write like about 15 or 20 percent of the book just with the plot, and then I and then I and then I write the book in about two months.
Speaker 1:I'm impressed. Thank you. Did you have success financially with your self-published books?
Speaker 2:I did when I was putting out a book every other month. But I did learn that that was not enjoyable for me. I had an editor who would make comments and say the heroine just called the hero the last hero's name. You know I can understand why and you know it was just really for me it was hard to connect to the characters when I was having to just pump them out. I'm able to take a good solid year on my books now with my historical fiction and it's honestly a dream come true, just getting to really sit in that story and get to absorb everything and really get to know inside and out all of my characters.
Speaker 1:It's been wonderful and it shows. I mean, the Book Lovers Library is a beautifully written book. The characters are deep, a little complicated. You have the background of World War II. I thought it was wonderful. Now let's talk about books. What are you currently reading?
Speaker 2:So I am currently reading the Good Daughters, which is a debut that is coming out soon. Bridget Dale is the author's name and it's called the Good Daughters and it is a book about the women's suffragette movement and women who really you wouldn't expect to be friends, but how they come together and really help to support one another and also really further the suffragette movement. And it's, like I said, a debut. I'm really enjoying it so far and I'm looking forward to it coming out and getting to help spread the word.
Speaker 1:Reading advanced reader copies is such a treat and it's so much fun recommending books to other readers. I just love that part of my job. Madeline, thank you so much for being a guest on the show.
Speaker 2:I've thoroughly enjoyed chatting with you and, as I've said many times, I loved the Book Lovers Library and I really enjoyed getting to chat with you and, as I've said many times, I loved the Book Lover's Library and I really enjoyed getting to chat with you too.
Speaker 1:This has been so fun. Thank you for having me. You've been listening to my conversation with Madeline Martin about her latest novel, the Book Lover's Library. To help the show reach more people, please share episodes with friends and family and on social media, and remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast. To find out more about the Bookshop Podcast, go to thebookshoppodcastcom and make sure to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to the show. You can also follow me at Mandy Jackson Beverly on X, Instagram and Facebook and on YouTube at the Bookshop Podcast. If you have a favorite indie bookshop that you'd like to suggest we have on the podcast, I'd love to hear from you via the contact form at thebookshoppodcastcom. The Bookshop Podcast is written and produced by me, Mandy Jackson-Beverly, Theme music provided by Brian Beverly, executive assistant to Mandy, Adrian Otterhan, and graphic design by Francis Farala. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next time.