The Bookshop Podcast
The Bookshop Podcast
Wonderland Books: How Two Friends Built A Beloved Indie Bookstore
Hi, this week I'm chatting with Amy Joyce and Gayle Weiswasser, co-owners of Wonderland Books in Bethesda, Maryland.
What turns a bookstore into a place where people feel part of a community? We asked Wonderland Books co-owners Amy Joyce and Gail Weiswasser, whose Bethesda shop blends sharp curation, joyful whimsy, and real community care—right down to a wall of Polaroids featuring every visiting dog.
We trace their unlikely routes into bookselling—Amy from nearly three decades at the Washington Post and Gail from law and corporate communications—and how those skills power everything from lease negotiations to handselling, newsletters, and event strategy. They open up about curating beyond their own tastes by leaning on staff with different genre passions, why a quarter of the store is devoted to children’s books, and how representation in kids’ publishing shapes what young readers reach for on the shelf.
Community is the through line. Hear how a creative Indiegogo campaign funded shelves and inventory while transforming donors into co-creators who curated displays, joined after-hours previews, and saw their book clubs’ names on the wall. We dig into school partnerships that put author-visit titles in students’ hands, hospital library donations made from damaged returns, and dog adoption events that turn the kids’ section into a gentle reading nook—even for a blind pup named Rex.
We also get practical about social media that works without a budget: staff-forward videos, playful trends, and a voice that feels human. Amy and Gail share what’s selling now—from dystopian classics to big-hearted novels—and offer thoughtful recommendations that build empathy, including Demon Copperhead, Nickel and Dimed, Nomadland, and The Secret Lives of Church Ladies. The philosophy is simple: welcome warmly, never hover, and let curiosity lead. If you love bookstores that feel like a sanctuary and a spark, this conversation will make you want to visit, linger, and read.
If this resonated, follow the show, leave a quick review, and share it with a friend who loves indie bookstores.
Demon Copperhead, Barbara Kingsolver
Some Great Nowhere, Ann Packer
The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny, Kiren Desai
The Road to Tender Hearts, Annie Hartnett
Nickel and Dimed, Barbara Ehrenreich
The Secret Lives of Church Ladies, Deesha Philyaw
Mandy Jackson-Beverly - Lunch With An Author Literary Series
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson Beverly, and I'm a bibliophile. Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast. Each week I present interviews with authors, independent bookshop owners and booksellers from around the globe, and publishing professionals. To help the show reach more people, please share episodes with friends and family and on social media. And remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast. You're listening to episode 311. Hi, here's a summary of what I've been up to since our last episode. And yes, I did take some time off. I was in Boston for the Boston Book Festival, where I moderated a panel with Allegra Goodman, Princess Joy L. Perry, and Nalinny Jones about the new releases I Sola, This Here is Love, and the Unbroken Coast, respectively. Lovely to meet up with author friends Dawn Tripp, Sarah DeVello, and Stephen Kernan, and to experience the beauty of Boston when the leaves were changing. This was my first time to this city, and I loved it. It's always a plus being in a walkable city. I want to give a shout out to FeedSpot for recognizing the Bookshop Podcast as number one in the best indie book podcasts for 2025, for an indie podcast that doesn't advertise or have major sponsors. We appreciate this recognition. Coming up on Thursday, November 13th, Ivy Pakoda is my author guest at the Santa Barbara Lunch with an Author literary series. Ivy and I will be chatting about one of my favourite backlist books, These Women. For more information, go to www.mandyjacksonbeverly.com forward slash events. My big news for 2026 is that I'm expanding the literary series to include OHI, California, and I'm partnering with Hotel El Robla. This gorgeous hotel was established in 1919 and has recently been renovated to include 50 rooms and bungalows, two distinct dining venues held by Jeff Brandon Boudet, and the Condor Bar serving modern Mexican cuisine and a guest-only cafe offering breakfast and lunch. The gardens are stunning, and the serene pool area is set against a backdrop of the scenic Topotopa Mountains. The Santa Barbara Literary Lunches will continue in 2026 with a new partnership with the University Club. Thank you to General Manager Sarah Rudd for her excitement around these events. In Los Angeles, the literary lunches are held at the California Club, which is situated right next door to the main Los Angeles library. This location is for members of the club and their friends. The dates and author information will be available on my website in December along with ticket sales. These events sell out quickly, so be sure to book early. Okay, now let's get on with this week's episode. Wonderland Books is an independent bookstore in the heart of Bethesda, Maryland, selling books for readers of all ages. Co-owners Amy Joyce and Gail Weiswasser named the bookshop Wonderland Books because they believe that reading and books open worlds of wonder no matter where in life you are. Hi, Gail and Amy, and welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for having us. We're excited to be here. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:My pleasure. Now I like to start these conversations with learning about the people who are on the show. So, Gail, let's start with you. You majored in American history at Brown and attended Harvard Law School before working in corporate communications. What was your interest in these areas? What drew you to law school?
SPEAKER_02:I'm not so sure I ever had a want or a need to study law, which is probably the problem. Um, you know, I went to law school, I kind of graduated into a recession, and I went to law school because a lot of the smart and interesting people I knew were lawyers, and I tried a lot of different aspects of law. I worked in startups, I clerked for a judge, I did litigation, I did transactional work, but none of it really ever took as far as kind of grabbing me my passion. Um, you know, and uh I left, I I had twins 21 years ago, and I left the law after they were born, and that's when I went into corporate communications, and I spent about 20 years working for um a number of really interesting corporate clients. I worked in social media, I worked in crisis communications, I've done all kinds of stuff. I spent the last 10 years at a technology startup running all of communications and business development for them, um, which was all great, but none of it was truly at the heart of what I loved and what I wanted to do, which was to be around books and to open a bookstore.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm glad you've landed doing something you love. Amy, you spent three decades as an award-winning journalist at the Washington Post, and you authored the book I Went to College for This. What led you to journalism?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I was an English lit major, and everybody would say, Well, what are you gonna do with that? I just I loved writing, I loved reading. Um, when I was in college, I got into the college paper. Um, I started writing for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, my hometown paper in the summers when I was home. So I loved the excitement of it, um, but I loved the words and the writing. And so, you know, over the 28 years that I was at the post, I did a lot of different, I was in a lot of different roles. Um in the last 10 years, I was running the parenting section, um, writing and editing. And it was some of the best years of my life at the post. I really, really enjoyed um editing a lot of personal essays, uh, honestly looking back, that were by novelists that I admired. Um, so I was constantly sort of working with and around books and tiptoeing around that. So I loved journalism and I loved the excitement of it. But I always wanted to open a bookstore. Uh, from the time I was very little, that was just my happy place. That was the place I felt most inspired. I loved reading from the moment I could read. Um, it's sort of I think the story of so many bookstore owners, it was just always there on my mind that, you know, I'd always say, oh, someday I would love to have a bookstore. And the fact that it actually happened still feels a little bit like a dream. And it's yes.
SPEAKER_01:I can imagine it does. How did the two of you meet? And what was the inspiration in opening an indie bookshop together?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so we were in a book club together. We've known each other from the neighborhood and mutual friends for a very long time. And, you know, I probably got serious about the bookstore a little before Amy. I actually had a different partner that I was working with kind of briefly until she decided the timing was just not right for her. And when my other partner exited, I called Amy and I said, Hey, I know this is a long shot, but would you like to open a bookstore with me? And at first she said, No, it's, you know, I I've got this great job and I've got, you know, family demands. I don't think this is a good time. And then one thing I love about her husband is she said to him that that night at dinner, Oh, Gail asked me if I wanted to open the bookstore. And he said, Well, you're gonna say yes, right. And that was a great sign. So then we started talking really seriously about it and you know, what would that look like? What would that look like for our our balance, work-life balance and financially, what would it look like and where would we do it? And um, it, you know, it just kind of all went from there.
SPEAKER_00:Piece by piece. Yeah, when Gail first mentioned this to the book club, she said, you know, guys, I've always wanted to open a bookstore. And I was just rooting her on and and cheering her on um from the beginning. And yeah, it was just uh it's it's funny that this worked out the way it did.
SPEAKER_01:And let's talk about curation of the store. Has your reading influenced the curation? And were there specific sections, genres you were adamant about selling in the store?
SPEAKER_00:Um we laugh that we wish we had different genres we we liked to sort of spread out the wealth, but we do like a lot of the same. We're both literary fiction readers. Um, we do diverge in some ways. I like a little more magical realism than Gail does, and probably read a little more nonfiction than you do. Maybe a little more nonfiction. Yeah. Um after all my years as a journalist, I need to break that.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, we overlap a lot. Like we pick up the same books all the time without realizing we're reading the same book. Yeah. The good news is we have a great staff who um like a real variety of books. So we've got people on our staff who love fantasy and romance. We have um a number, oddly men, who read uh history and the political stuff.
SPEAKER_01:And what about your children's section?
SPEAKER_00:So I also love children's books. Um and my sister-in-law is working with us, and she actually has a degree in children's literature, and then we also have a wonderful um children's bookseller who helps us a lot and comes in on Saturdays, and she's an expert in the field, and um, so that's been really helpful as we're building that up.
SPEAKER_02:Our bookstore is about 25% uh children, so there's a really big robust children's section.
SPEAKER_01:And thank goodness we're seeing more diversity in book publishing for children, uh, because it's so important that children see themselves represented on bookshelves.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And the thing that's so important and so interesting about this is the children. People have been saying for years, but it's so true. Like it really helps to see yourself in a book. So even if their parents aren't looking for it, they will automatically sort of walk toward the books where there are characters that look like them. And that alone tells you why it's so important to have such diverse titles and settings and characters and authors. Um, it's important, it's important for them to see themselves in these books and see themselves as, you know, main characters um and just regular everyday children in these books, you know, saving the world and poetry and just solving mysteries. Solving mysteries. It's um going on adventures. Yes. So it's a it's a shame that it took so long. Um there were such few titles, you know, years ago, but it's really changed a lot, thankfully. Um and I'm just so happy when we see a child pick up a book that they're excited about or that they think it reminds them of themselves or their friends or their family. It's just so necessary.
SPEAKER_01:And can you talk a little about the diversity of Bethesda?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so our bookstore is in Bethesda, Maryland. We're about um maybe two miles, two to three miles from the DC border. So it's just right over the line. Um it is a relatively affluent suburban area. It's not the most diverse population, but we find that the store does attract a pretty diverse readership. So it may not be people who live within a mile of the store, but maybe they work in the neighborhood or they're, you know, just there. So um I've actually been pleasantly surprised by the diversity of our clientele. I think we were a little worried in the beginning that it was gonna feel really white and it hasn't, which is nice. We do make a real effort to stock even beyond the kids' section, diversity of authors and voices and viewpoints and perspectives. And um, I would hope that anyone walking into the store of any background would find something on the shelf that either speaks to their experience or that they, like Amy said, that they can either identify with the author or identify with the subject or something. So it's um it's more diverse than we expected.
SPEAKER_01:And Gail, you've also hosted over 160 podcast episodes on digital marketing and we also review books on your blog every day I write the book. Your experience in marketing must come in handy when promoting the bookshop. How important is it for indie bookshops to have a presence on social media? And how important are personal honor stories in social media content?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean, I've spent my career basically working in social media. Um, I used to run social media for a large TV network, and it's to me it's always been about establishing a um genuine connection with your audience, whether it's through humor, whether it's through education, whether it's through inspiration. Social media is a fantastic vehicle for establishing that type of connection. I know social media has all kinds of problems and has led to all kinds of problems. But speaking about the positive sides of it, it does foster community, is a really immediate and um authentic vehicle for communicating and connecting. And for us, social media has been something we've done from the beginning. I mean, it's free, first of all, which is great. I mean, unless you put paid spend behind it, but certainly as a bookstore starting out without a big marketing budget, or frankly, without any marketing budget, um, social media has been really effective. And we have a great social media manager right now who comes in with all kinds of ideas of things she has seen on Instagram or TikTok and has us create these silly videos in the store. And people love them. And we get comments all the time about our social media. Oh, you guys are killing it on Instagram, or um, I learned about this store on Instagram, or I loved what you know, I saw this book on your TikTok. And so we we know it's working. You know, social media, it's really hard to actually calculate an ROI. I think it's sort of it's a useless task because so much of social media is ephemeral and you know it's it's intangible, but we feel that our social media platforms really reflect who we are as or the personality of our store, which is kind of playful and friendly and open. We try to make sure that all of our employees get airtime, so we have her come on a different day of the week each time so that she's getting different people who are there. And um it, I don't know. I think it's a great engagement tool.
SPEAKER_01:I do too. And as much negativity as we are uh confronted with with social media, there's also the flip side, and I think it's really difficult if you have a small business uh not to be on social media. It's a great way to build community. I think if we take a good look at what happened during lockdown and how bookshops relied on social media to show what books they had in the store so that people could order them and either come and pick them up outside the bookshop or have them delivered. I don't know that we would have gotten through that if it hadn't been for social media. One thing that bothers me about platforms such as Goodreads and Amazon is that it's become the norm for every man and his dog to become a book reviewer. And personally, I don't talk about books that I don't like. Uh I used to review books for the New York Journal of Books that is sadly closed. But I just find that people are criticizing books for the wrong reasons. Like I bought this book and I didn't know it was going to be a sci-fi book, and they'll give it one star. And when you get a few of those kinds of negative reviews and silly reviews, it brings down the overall rating for that particular author's books. I'd love your thoughts on this. Amy, would you like to go first?
SPEAKER_00:Sure. I mean, there are so many excellent books out there. Why spend the time complaining about a book, I guess? Um, and that is one thing I love about doing so many things on social media is that I just there are so many books I want to talk about, and Gail wants to talk about, and our booksellers want to talk about. And so um just putting that out there because we want people to know what's great out there right now. And so that's really the focus, and I think that's sort of the important focus. I think in general, I would much rather share what we like and and what we think people would like than criticize books that maybe aren't our thing. And also I feel like many times if I'm not that crazy about a book, somebody else is, and there is a reason for that.
SPEAKER_01:Um, whether it's you know, just like any art form, it's subjective, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. We love to we love to share what we love to read and what we think other people will love to read. And I think that's the focus.
SPEAKER_01:Gail, you've been a book reviewer. What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_02:I have a slightly different perspective on that. Um I was just gonna say, because I've spent 20 years writing this book review blog. And one of the things that people always tell me about the blog is they love how honest I am. And that if, you know, I have definitely written negative reviews before. Um, even authors I love, I've written negative reviews of if I just didn't love the book. So transitioning to the bookstore has been a challenge because I don't want to be putting out negative content about books for many, many reasons. Like Amy said, you know, we want to be championing great books. There's so many good ones out there. Um, you never know when an author might be, you know, looking into someplace to have an event. And I would hate for them to find something negative that I wrote about a book. So I've tried to really temper my reviews. I've skipped some reviews, um, which is something I never used to do, but I've I've not reviewed some books that I've read because I didn't love them, or I've just tried to be um more balanced in the review, or just try to focus on the positive, or say, like, you know, this might not have worked for me, but here's the reader that this book would be good for.
SPEAKER_01:Tell me about the Indiegogo campaign you both created to raise money for construction and inventory of Wonderland books. And what ideas did you come up with to gain interest in people donating?
SPEAKER_02:We funded this bookstore really on our own. Um, we didn't take out loans, you know, like small business loans. We we each contributed a certain amount of our own personal money, you know, and for that we might have taken out loans, but it wasn't like uh something we did for the books as a bookstore. But we did do an Indiegogo campaign, which was very successful and helped us raise forty two thousand dollars, was it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So in order to get those forty-two thousand dollars, we came up with kind of a tier of things that you would get depending on you know what you were comfortable donating. And, you know, we started small with like a sticker and a bookmark and then a water bottle and then a tote bag, and then we kind of tried to get kind of creative and we did um, you know, one thing we loved was for$500, you got to curate a shelf in the store for I think we promised a week, but it's really turned out to be more like a month. Um, but you know, for some people, you know, they love the idea of coming up with 15 or 20 books that they love and seeing their love to see what they pick too.
SPEAKER_00:It's um definitely some different titles that maybe we wouldn't have had on, you know, it's been really fun.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. And we put a little bio and a photo of the person and uh they really enjoy. They come in and take a picture of it. And what were some of the other things we did? Uh, signage on the wall. We you for you know a certain amount of money, you've got your name on the wall. So we have a nice thing. We also worked with some local book clubs, and um, we got about eight book clubs, and they contributed um a certain amount of money and they got their name on the wall as a book club and some special events in there um that they've been able to attend, like some holiday preview type stuff or speed dating with books where Amy and I will just recommend a whole bunch of books, you know, quickly in succession. Um, they got a special limited hours.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, they get to come in after hours. We lock the doors and they get to hang out in the bookstore. And it's yeah, right. It's been a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_01:They're great ideas. Did you use the money from the Indiegogo campaign mainly as kind of inside construction of the shop, building bookshelves, et cetera?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I just kind of went into the big fund.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, although it sort of equaled, we were able to dull it out and see exactly, you know, what it did go to. So it did go to the bookshelves.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the bookshelves.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and it did go to inventory. And um, you know, it was it was strange to set it up. I was very nervous about it. It felt weird, but the thing that was amazing was people wanted to. They were coming to us and asking to do it. Um, and then the like sort of amazing part of it is they're all a little part of the bookstore now. And I think it feels good. Either whether their name is on the wall or we had special bags made up for people who donated some money that we it says Wonderland Superstar. So, like the people that we see with the superstar bags, we know they were there from the beginning. And it's just, I think they were happy to be a part of it. And we just feel so much warmth when we're out there and we know these people supported us to get the bookstore up and running. It's been um, there's a lot more benefit than the the money that went with it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I'm glad you brought up the word community because to me that's what indie bookshops are about building community inside and outside the store. Can you talk about how you've done both, whether it's through school programs, donating books to hospitals or prisons? And I do want to hear about your pet adoption program.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. One of the things that's been the most effective in building community, and we we borrowed this idea from another bookstore, so we don't take credit for it, but we take a Polaroid photo of every dog that comes into the store and we post it on the wall with their name on it because we're a very dog-friendly store. And someone was doing a little article about this and asked us, and I think this was already three weeks ago. I counted, we have 560 pictures.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_02:And we only opened in December. So we love the fact that people bring their dogs in. Sometimes they come in just for the purpose of getting their dog on the wall.
SPEAKER_00:We've had three cats, yeah, and there are three cats on the wall.
SPEAKER_02:Um, yeah, we've had dogs who have passed away since their pictures were taken and their owners come back in. So the dog wall is a great community builder. We have also done two dog adoption events. Um we have participated in some community events that have taken place in other areas like um community center, um, like artisan fairs, or where we've partnered with um a local synagogue and we're doing a book club program with them. We've got three authors coming in. That's part of a Wednesday's writing, Wednesday reading club thing that they're doing.
SPEAKER_00:Um we've partnered with an open book foundation. So Title I schools that are having an author visit um our customers, and we buy books. So every child who sees that author gets to walk out of that school with one of those books. We donate books to the hospital, Catholic charities was looking for um books for new refugees, uh, so children who were trying to learn English, and we've been able to do that.
SPEAKER_02:Bookstores get a lot of damaged books. Uh, they come in from the publisher and they've they're damaged. So we report them, we get credit for them, and then they say you can donate or destroy them. So what we do with them is we box them up, and then actually she's coming today. Uh, there's a woman who works at Georgetown Hospital, and she collects those books and has created a library for patients in the hospital. And in fact, she's expanding it now to include nurses. So they're going to create a little library in like the nurses' station, too. So, I mean, it's this is an effortless thing for us. All we have to do is tell her that the books are available, but it's nice that we feel like the books are going to a good place and they're being used.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's wonderful. I just love that pet adoption idea, but it must have been crazy in the bookshop.
SPEAKER_00:It was pretty crazy both times. The second time there was a sweet dog that I still think about. His name was Rex, and he's blind. And they put him on a little dog bed in the children's section, and all day long children could sit down and read read books to him, and it was just delightful. It was so sweet.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my goodness, that's so heartwarming to hear. He sounds like the perfect dog for the bookshop. You both attended the indie bookstore owner boot camp run by Mark Kaufman and his wife, Donna Paz Kaufman. How did this prepare you for becoming an indie bookstore owner? And were the classes primarily about the economics of running a business? Or did you also learn about curation, ordering, and the design of an indie bookshop?
SPEAKER_00:Well, it was a great concentrated what is it, three days in Florida at their lovely bookstore, um, Story and Song. And they went over everything. We saw, um, and this was before we had the store, so it was all overwhelming and new to us, but they really did break it down um in a way that felt digestible. Um, and we saw, you know, at the end of the day, like sort of how they ran the numbers and what books they would return for damages, what it was like to receive books. So they took us through the whole process, and it was great. It was in a way, there was so much information coming at us. It was almost overwhelming, but they sent us home with a binder. So it was all in there. And one of the great benefits of this was there were 20 people in our class and we're still in touch. So we have a uh a WhatsApp group and we um help each other out, we ask for advice, and the majority of them have opened bookstores since all of them. So um the community that it built was amazing. Um, but it did give us a nice look into how to open and run a bookstore.
SPEAKER_01:And have you both found that the work you've done previously, whether it be in law or journalism or corporate communications, how would you say this work has helped you when you were opening the bookshop and as you uh are working in it on a day-to-day basis?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. I mean, yeah, I look back on my career and it like absolutely led me to this point. You know, the all the communications uh experience I have has been really helpful with, you know, writing newsletters or doing marketing strategy, reaching out when we're having a particular event and figuring out how to, you know, who do we want to reach out to. Um, yeah, the legal background is helpful when you're reading a contract or a lease, negotiating a lease. Um, and then certainly all those years and years and years of book reviewing and immersing myself in the book world and listening to book podcasts and going to book expo in New York. I mean, I did I've done that for so, so, so long. I mean, it's great to kind of be doing it now professionally instead of as a hobbyist, but it's all the culmination has all led me here. And I was thinking about this all those years, I'm sure you feel this way, of wrapping presents at Christmas and Hanukkah. Like we wrap presents all day long. We wrap books all day long. So, like, there's just all these little things in my life anyway, that I feel like I draw on every day at the store. And what about you, Amy?
SPEAKER_00:Um, journalism too. There's definitely, you know, a little Venn diagram, a little overlap. I'm very close with a lot of people I worked with at the post and people I edited. So we have a lot of writers coming in who either wrote for me or I worked with a lot because they they all journalists all write write books or essayists all have novels. And so that's been a big help. I read so much as a living, um, that helps me now, you know, that was my whole career. I would read all day and I'd come home and I'd read at night. And so, you know, it I think I that helps me sort of discern what I like and what the bookstore should have. And being a journalist, you move quickly. And I think that's really helped me too. Like you just million tasks a day and you have to think fast and move fast. And that I think was something that was just in me. And that's really helped setting up the bookstore too. And also as a journalist, you can't be too intimidated or too scared. And so I think that's helped just sort of help me plow forward.
SPEAKER_01:I love that about growing older. Uh, we can look at our past and the work we've done, the people we've met, the locations we've been in, and it starts to all come together and make sense. I just love that. I I think it's really a fun way to look at life. Gail, in an article written by Deborah Lynn Bloomberg, you set of your customers and customers to be, quote, we just want them to know we're here. We don't view an interaction with a customer that doesn't end up as a sale as a wasted experience. End quote. I see this as the fundamental philosophy behind bookselling. Creating a space where everyone feels welcome. It's not just about saying hello or that latest thing, welcome in, which drives me nuts. Um, it's about bookseller etiquette and how and when to speak with people. What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, we instruct our booksellers that whenever someone comes in to welcome them in, maybe we do say welcome in, but we, you know, we say hello. We want them to, we don't want anyone to feel ignored when they come in, but we also don't want them to feel like we're hovering. One of the great joys of being in a bookstore is to wander and to, you know, get a little lost in it and discover. And I also think that book buying is a really decent personal thing. And the books that you choose to read, you know, may reflect very personal things. And so um personally, I try not to comment on what people are buying. I mean, unless it's a book like I've just read, um, or it's a book I've written a shelf talker for or something like that. I I try to give them their personal space, let them, you know, let that act of buying the book be private, but at the same time be friendly. So maybe we don't talk to them about what the book is, but we comment on the weather or something that they're wearing. Say that's a lovely sweater, something like that. You know, just some personal connection. Um, the dog thing really helps because people come in with dogs all the time and And as a very easy way to approach somebody is just to say, Do you mind if I pet your dog? Because we always, there's always one of us who wants to pet a dog. So, and you know, back to that quote about it's not a waste if somebody comes in and doesn't buy a book. Well, if they come in and they have a positive experience either with our staff or they find something interesting or they bought a card or something, the likely it is they'll come back. You know, the next time they need a book or they doing holidays, they need to buy a gift or they're it's Christmas or whatever, they'll think of us. And we want that experience they came in the first time to have been positive, but not something that felt like pressure.
SPEAKER_00:I think in general, when people come in, we do welcome them and we say, let us know if you need help with anything. Um, and I find myself a lot of times just saying, just enjoy yourself. You know, you're here. Enjoy yourself. And, you know, the DC area is in a strange state right now. Um, a lot of people are furloughed. Uh, they might not be spending too much money, but they do look for a place to go and feel some comfort. And we're finding in the bookstore uh someone will come up to the register and you know, they buy a book. Well, I have time to read now because I was furloughed and somebody else pops their head up. Oh, I was furloughed too. And so it we're finding that community there. And we want people to know they're welcome to come in and let this be the place where they just need to sit and breathe for a minute. Um, so we don't like to hover, like Gail said, we don't like to pester people and and act like they need to buy something. Like you said earlier, we're building a community. So it feels like they, if they know we're there and they know we're not pressuring them, they'll they'll come back. We'll be on their radar, they'll be thinking of us. Um, and that makes us happier too. It just makes it for a very pleasant day.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I will say some of my favorite conversations have been in independent bookshops, not just with booksellers, but when uh another person is in there and they start talking to you about a book they've read, or you can see them just about to go for a book that you've read, and you can't help yourself. You have to start talking about that book. Indie bookshops are about community for me and and conversations.
SPEAKER_00:We love it ourselves. I don't mean to speak for Gail, but that's I think our favorite part of the day. Um, you know, when people start talking about books or tell us how much they loved a certain book and we have that conversation.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well, with that idea in mind, I'm gonna ask you one question and then another one. Uh, but you'll have time to think about this first one. If there were a couple of books that you would love everyone to read, what would they be? Or it be? Could we just be one book? And the other is what are you currently reading?
SPEAKER_00:Oh boy.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we're kind of reading the same book.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, again, we're reading the same book and loving it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I think we're both listening on audio to Buckeye by Patrick Ryan, which is historical fiction set in 1939. 39, um ish. Ish, actually into the four into the 40s. And then I think it'll sweep all the way up to like present day, um, or at least like at least like 2000 or something. So we're both enjoying that. It's sort of a traditional sweeping. Somebody described it as big-hearted. Did you tell me that? Yeah, yeah, big-hearted book.
SPEAKER_00:Jeffrey, another bookseller.
SPEAKER_02:One of our booksellers, yeah. So we're both reading that. Um, I'm also reading a book called Some Bright Nowhere by Ann Packer, who's going to be visiting the store the second week in November. Um, I read a book by her many years ago called The Die from Clausen's Pier. Came out in 2005. So we're talking 20 years ago. This is a very, very sad book that I'm not going to recommend to everybody because it's so sad. It's about a husband and a wife. The wife is in the end stages of terminal cancer. And um, it's really about the dynamic between the two of them and how at her, as she's approaching the end of her life, she actually asks him to move out. And she has her two best friends move in because she wants this kind of experience of leaving her life to be with them and not with him. And so, of course, it creates a lot of hurt and confusion on his part. And it's like a very, very detailed, minute exploration of the decline in health and all of the things that happen. So it's both emotional and physical. It's very hard. I'm really liking it. I love her writing style, it's extremely detailed, but it is very sad. And certainly for people who have been through this with a loved one, it might be very triggering. So this would be, you know, something to keep in mind before picking that book up.
SPEAKER_01:What an interesting subject to write about.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I think that anyone reading it would develop great empathy for both the caregiver and the person who's ill, just seeing all of this perspective. Um, so I this is a book that will probably stay with me for a very long time. I'm really, really excited to meet the author when she's in town. She's coming to read at the store, and I'm looking forward to that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, Amy, your turn.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so I'm listening to Buckeye. Um, and I just started uh The Loneliness of Sonia and Sonny. Um, the the big epic novel by is it Kieran Desai?
SPEAKER_02:I think so.
SPEAKER_00:I think I'm saying that correctly. Um and it's it's just gonna be wonderful. Um, and I also just finished Road to Tender Hearts uh by Annie Hartnett, and she's gonna be in the store on Wednesday. Um and that book, oh my gosh, I that one too, I said was full of heart and hope. It was, you know, just multi-layered moments were very funny. Um, there were moments that were very sad, but it was just, yeah, it was a delight. So I'm excited to to listen to her on Wednesday at the store.
SPEAKER_01:And now that second part of the question, which was if there was a book you could recommend for everyone to read, what would it be? And I'm I'm not saying you're gonna shove it down their throat. It's just that a book that you wish in your heart everyone would read. Gail, why don't you start?
SPEAKER_02:For me, it's gonna be a pair of books. They're nonfiction, they're both about working. One is called Nickel and Dime, it's by Barb Barbara Ehrenreich, it's an old book, and one is called Nomad Land by Jessica Broder. And that is, I think it's Broder. And that is a new-ish book that was made into a movie by the same name, Nomad Land. And Nickel and Dimed is about people who work menial jobs, you know, they work um as maids in hotels or cleaning people, or they are working in big box stores. Um, and it's about the life of people who live jobs that are not necessarily fulfilling financially or uh intellectually, and how hard of a life that is. You know, I've worked I've worked in white-collar jobs my whole life and have never ever thought once about the fact that if I need to use the bathroom, I go and use the bathroom. And I was reading nickel and dimed about people who had to schedule, they were only allowed a certain number of bathroom breaks a day. And, you know, maybe they're working on a factory floor, they're working in, you know, a big warehouse. And the fact that you have to think about that before getting up from your desk, um, that was like eye-opening to me. And I think about that book almost every day. And no man is about um itinerant workers who are people that have to follow, they have to kind of drive to find jobs. And you know, maybe they're working in an Amazon work um warehouse at Christmas time, and that's that's a temporary need because Amazon needs more people picking stuff off shelves and putting them in boxes at Christmas time than it does the rest of the year, or maybe they're working on a berry farm in the summer. But it's people who drive all across the country in search of work because they don't have work where they live. And the loneliness of that existence, the exhaustion, the living out of a van, um, and the communities that have sprung up among these nomad workers, I just found that to be a fascinating book. And then an equally beautiful and fascinating movie, which I adored. So those two books combined, I think, especially where we live, would be eye-opening to people because it's so foreign from what they think of as work and what they do. And I think it's gives you a tremendous amount of compassion for the vast majority of people in this country and how they make a living.
SPEAKER_01:Well, they both sound great. Thank you. And I'll make sure to put all of the books that we talk about in the show notes. Amy, what about you?
SPEAKER_00:It's almost cliche because so many people have read it, but I've also heard from so many people who said they didn't feel like they had to read it because they sort of knew the story. But um, Demon Copperhead by Barbara King Salver. Um, I think the thing I loved about that book, and I read it when it first came out, it stuck with me. It was in even in my dreams, the characters, um, which has never happened before. Talk about getting empathy from a novel. Um, you know, it's focused on people who live in poverty and Appalachia, who um fall under, you know, end up as drug addicts. And it just, they were so multidimensional. And I just ended up loving every character in that book. Um, I just think it's really important that people read it. I think that it's just sort of necessary reading, um, really humanizes a population of people in the US that are often forgotten or just looked down upon. So I think pretty much anything Barbara King Silver does is amazing. But this book in particular, just it was so um open-hearted and I think important for people to read this day and age. That was one. And then one that I always go back to, and I think Gail liked this book too long, long ago, um, is the Secret Lives of Church Ladies. You like that one too, right? Um, by Deisha Filia. Um, is that I that's how we say her name, but it's just um it's short stories, and a lot of times people say they don't like short stories, but I think they do, they just don't see a lot of um short story books. But hers is just this great look at um black women and girls who are like daring to follow their dreams, and it just again, it just shows you a different side of society and people that maybe you know you gloss over. So um again, very multidimensional, um, just really loving and human.
SPEAKER_01:I can see why you two get on so well. Well, because of the different books you've chosen. They're both to do with empathy.
SPEAKER_02:We're very similar, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Which we didn't know when this all started too much, but yeah, it's funny.
SPEAKER_02:We now will show up to work and like half the time we're wearing the same thing. Yeah. Unplanned, it just happens. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And what books are you selling in the store that are becoming really popular right now?
SPEAKER_02:Well, there's lots of books being sold right now about tyranny and autocracy and um democracy or the lack thereof. Those books are people are leaning in on those or dystopian. I mean, this is not just our store, this is happening all over the country, but 1984, Handmaid's Tale. So those are good, and then on the other side, there's people who come in and they don't want to hear about any of that. They want to escape, they want something to ease their anxiety and stress a little bit, and they come in and they want wedding people, or they want um Frederick Bachman, or, you know, like you said, the um Annie Hartnett book. I think they're looking for just some reminders about the good in humanity as opposed to just being dashed over the head with what's going on around us.
SPEAKER_01:Well, thank you so much for being guests on the show today. I feel like I've had a little peek inside your bookshop window. It's wonderful.
SPEAKER_00:Well, thank you so much for having us on. It's such a treat. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:You've been listening to my conversation with Amy Joyce and Gail Weiswasser, co-owners of Wonderland Books in Bethesda, Maryland. To help the show reach more people, please share episodes with friends and family and on social media. And remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast. To find out more about the Bookshop Podcast, go to thebookshoppodcast.com. And make sure to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to the show. You can also follow me at Mandy Jackson Beverly, on Instagram and Facebook, and on YouTube at the Bookshop Podcast. If you have a favorite indie bookshop that you'd like to suggest we have on the podcast, I'd love to hear from you via the contact form at thebookshoppodcast.com. The Bookshop Podcast is written and produced by me, Mandy Jackson Beverly. Theme music provided by Brian Beverly, and a big thank you to my assistant, Kaylee Duchinger. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.